Which side makes a better case?
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  • 2 years ago

    Sorry, @julian it cut out as you started that last statement.
    So I believe Libertarianism may fail due to large population but I don't believe overpopulation is a problem or that it exists.

  • 2 years ago

    Wow that went quick. Thanks for the debate.

    • 2 years ago

      Thanks for the interesting 45 minutes though. Nice chatting with you again.

      • 2 years ago

        I was happy you mentioned Prof Simon though as I may not have remembered him and he was rather heroic, in my view, on the subject against the popular view and he was proven right with many of his predictions.

        • 2 years ago

          Teaching Math to Art students? That is a something I don't envy. Good talk on both sides; in particular the ideas around problems of distribution in Africa. I have one small quibble though. @nellyj It seems your problem with the redistribution in Zimbabwe is that the land ended up with cronies to the regime that couldn't make proper use of it, thus leading to food shortages. I might be wrong but I sensed at least an implicit acknowledgment colonization could have seized that land unjustly. Would the leader of Zimbabwe giving that land to the labors, who presumably know how to make crops go be a more elegant solution to rectifying the injustice of colonization as well as having people not starve?

          • 2 years ago

            @behind_the_veil_of_ignorance as I said I did t want to go into how it may have been obtained long ago as it's a long and difficult, I bet impossible task. But yes, it probably was, it always is, given to cronies though even if it was given to the laborers they still likely would not know anything about farming. Does the fry cook know how to run a fast food joint? Farming is much likewise. They're probably skilled at some aspect of the farm but unlikely to know what they were doing. The farms completely dried up and the govt thought about forcing people to work them. The real problem is that the people given the farm had no incentive or reason to actually work the farm and no care for it as they had been given it and had no investment in it or ability to net gain from laboring on it.
            This is really where the infinite value of the pricing system comes in. The pricing system allocates resources to their highest valued use but when resources are just given away they often go to people with no competence and no care for the resource and no desire to even obtain it.

        • 2 years ago

          Didn't have time to watch this full debate yet and I'm a neophyte in terms of the Libertarian movement, but my initial question based on the topic is this: Is overpopulation truly an issue in a free market? Wouldn't a free market naturally adjust for exponential population growth since that will drive the cost of living up? This naturally discourages reproduction/large families.

          Obviously there are so many more factors here but @julian I would love to hear your thoughts (forgive me if you addressed this at length in the second half of the debate)

          • 2 years ago

            @drsteve that's a good question. Had we not run out of time I would have shown that we are seeing a spike in population, not an upward incline, that could benefit free market economics, as Nelson illustrated. It literally goes from the the bottom to the top.

            As far as cost of living, the main problem is creation of capital. Even as Julian Simon illustrates the average worker is a third less employable and thier labor worth half. That 4:5ths the population. Almf a Middle East colony has no resources, but plenty of capital, the best technology and universities, is berween three continents and major trade routes, yet can only feed 45% of its people and has a large decline in species.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation

          • 2 years ago

            Very interesting points, and exactly, the steady increase of population will spike and decline since our economy naturally corrects for this. I hadn't thought of the Middle East example, I'll have to look into it more. Thanks for the additional info!

          • 2 years ago

            @drsteve I'm saying that because it's a spike it's impossible for the market to make corrections in our lifetime and it will have long a term impact (i.e. Animal species), therefore we need regulations, etc.

        • 2 years ago

          The fascination whit Mars is that it has water resources which are essential for colonization and life. The moon doesn't have those so just about everything we need to live has to be imported.