@btkendall just stay live until @mfm08a joins, he should be on soon!
Was anyone live yet?
Feminism is NOT about man-hating or man-shaming, and to assert that is to misunderstand the entire concept.
Let's wait for the debate to start! :)
Historically Feminism was not about manshaming or man hating but today you do have a large group that claim they are feminist that do.
Feminism is based around the entire idea that men are essentially to blame for everything, at least everything bad, in a society. Without patriarchy you would not have feminism. It's essentially a movement that says they will focus on equality, all while stepping on others to gain superiority.I can't wait to debate this tomorrow!
Yea but men face body-shaming too, these are not EXCLUSIVELY female issues. Statistically, men are raped more often than women.
Body-shaming isn't an exclusively female issue. Agreed. I've been body shamed (both by men and by women). But it certainly isn't endemic, as it is for women. Most women are body-shamed more in an average week than most women are in an average lifetime. As for men being raped more often than women, that's probably true. Those men are being raped by other men. Sure, women rape men, and women rape women. But the majority of all rapes are committed by men, which makes it a major concern for women, especially considering that those men raping men resume raping women when they get out of prison. A man who is NOT in prison generally does not have rape as a concern.
Those were some impressive mental gymnastics. You were able to shame an entire group of rape victims solely because they shared the same gender with their rapist. And if you want to look at real statistics, lesbians are by far the most active when it comes to sexual assault in recent studies. Rape against women has decreased over 80% in the last 30 years and yet rape for men wasn't even legally defined by the FBI, men couldn't even be considered to have been victims of rape, until 2013. That's right. 2013. You sir have no clue what you're talking. I would love to debate you though!
Mental gymnastics were not required, and I shamed no one, least of all victims. However, it might have seemed that I did, which means that I possibly explained myself inadequately.Men perpetrate rape more than women perpetrate rape. Far greater numbers of women live in fear of being raped than men live in fear of being raped. This doesn't make rape exclusively a female issue, but it does make rape a concern for greater number of women than for men (yeah, I know that's a tautology).
I don't think men laugh off rape charges because of equality and a lower view of women. It is because men are more open about sex. The idea that a man would reject sex is unthinkable. At least that is one possible explanation and we don't need to appeal to sexism to explain it.
Why do you say that men are more open to sex? Could it have anything to do with the way society VIEWS women who are open about sex compared to men? Which is a problem feminism addresses!
I don't think society created the male sexual appetite.
It gives it an outlet but didn't create it.
What I said is also true of domestic violence. Remember that video where they had a guy beating up a girl and a girl beating up a guy, same girl/guy, same place, and when the guy was being beaten everyone laughed?Whats the reason for that? Do guys just love being victims of domestic violence that much?
I think men have commonly solicited more women for sex than women have solicited men, hence the male rejection rate is higher. This leads to the perception that women desire sex less often than men, whereas I suspect that the opposite might actually be true.
The reason for that is simply that men have a larger body structure and are more prone to aggression. Women are really not prone to physical aggression. That's not sexism. I don't think being a better fighter is a virtue Apes are good fighters too. It's just a fact. Men are better fighters. No wild eyed sexism theories necessary. Also if you think that an objective statement like "men are better fighters" is sexism, then you are probably just looking for reasons to be offended.
Simply saying "some women falsely accuse men of rape" does not mean that the feminist movement is an outdated or unnecessary cause
No, it doesn't. But it certainly shows that there is absolutely nothing holding women back from reporting. Police and colleges will, and have quite literally, ruin young men's entire lives based on an accusation. That's all it takes.We live in a culture where women are encouraged to think if they regret it that they were raped. I ONLY know feminists who hold those beliefs. So, if I can make a comparison, not all muslims are bad people. But Islam at it's core is a fucked up and immoral religion that encourages disdainful things in gruesome detail. Feminism at it's core is toxic, sexist and rooted in a very primitive idea of how our societies are structured. It doesn't fix any problems because it can't address the real cause of them.I am debating this tomorrow. Can't wait to be honest. I had no idea this would be so easy. You folks are giving me tons of material.
"there is absolutely nothing holding women back from reporting" not all women are terrible people and/or liars. I know people who have avoided reporting a rape because they do NOT want to ruin their rapist's life. So how about being an honest person holding most women back from reporting a false rape. The same thing that prevents people from framing other people for other crimes. "We live in a culture where women are encouraged to think if they regret it that they were raped." Why do you think this? Do you have evidence to support this? I don't think I have EVER heard of a woman thinking that way, whether they identify as a feminist or not.
@mfm08a PLEASE debate @theantifeminist and tell him what's up. I would do it but I only have an iPhone :(
Looks like we will have a video debate in this tournament, I will help with his education then.
The boy who cried wolf = feminism nowadays. I agree with the btkendall
Did you just assume feminism's gender?! /s
Ok sure, men do experience body-shaming. But the fact is that more women die from anorexia than men. Eating disorders affect women in much more significant numbers than men, showing it is a bigger problem in the female community.
I don't think it's a bigger problem there. I think men and women react to things differently though. A man is less likely to starve himself. More likely to take out anger in other ways.
I think that can be a valid point but can you provide any evidence for that?
@mfm08a you're my hero
I think sources should be shared before these debates so that both sides can be prepared and neither are caught off guard. It might be that one side is misreading a source and the other side doesn't have a chance to refute it.
That kinda kills the point of a debate. It's fun to see people flounder around if they come unprepared. I agree sources are important to have though.
Feminists are anyone who believes women are equal to men. Feminism is inherently anti-sexism. Any woman who is sexist against men is not a feminist even if she calls herself one.
no two human beings on this planet are, have ever been, or will ever be "equal." it's a meaningless term outside of two specific areas:1. Math2. Being equal in God's eyes, in terms of your gender, race or station in life being irrelevant to being considered holy and entering into the Kingdom of Heavensaying "women are equal to men" is a statement utterly without substance
Mfm08a won't know what him if he faces off against me.btkendall how could you let him talk off subject and lead the debate like that?
When would you like to face off, and on what subject?
Although I guess we are both in the tournament so we may end up facing off regardless
This is a contest. But I'll be happy to take you up on this same thesis another time. For now, let's just say I'm not religious, but you should go to church tomorrow. You're going to need it.
In my experience the people who spend a lot of time bragging about how smart they are are less smart than they think.But we shall see.
Here's that quote again "no matter how that anger is expressed"
Also if you want to argue that institutional sexism against women isn't a thing, arguing that discrepancies are due to the inferiority of women in areas like body language isnt going to help you
Citing a biased, liberal school report with results that can not be repeated gets you nowhere.
@theantifeminist you need to school this dude @mfm08a
@btkendall you may be the stupidest person I've ever had the misfortune to experience.
defending feminism isn't going to get you laid Max
@jax well said! @gigi