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  • 8 months ago

    I was impressed with the rationale of the the "agree" side. I hadn't thought of it like that. However, I have to say that the rights of the woman who is alive in all senses of the word must take precedence over the potential rights or abilities of an unborn fetus. Restrictions on living people …

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    • 8 months ago

      the basis of my argument does rest on the fact that the unborn fetus is still a living person and therefore has rights too. A mother's rights do not take precedence over the fetus's just as much as a millionaire's do not take precedence over a hobo.

      That is why I stuck to the argument that we need …

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    • 8 months ago

      Whether a fetus is a human being with the rights me and you share is subjective

  • 8 months ago

    If you think the government should be in the business of banning safe medical procedures based on religious dogma and lies perpetrated by groups that engage in terrorist tactics then you aren't really a Libertarian at all are you? Unless you don't think Freedom should apply to people with uteruses.

    • 8 months ago
    • 8 months ago

      A fetus isn't a child. I have science on my side. You have lies. You lie about abortion, you lie about Donald trump being Presidential, you lie about PizzaGate. You are a liar. Anyone who willingly gets into an H2H with you is either naive in thinking that you will actually respond to facts & …

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    • 8 months ago
    • 8 months ago

      Do you give a fuck about women being sexually assaulted? Trump doesn't.

    • 8 months ago
    • 8 months ago

      Your answer is to stop what you personally feel is wrong with more statism. Your shoving morality and ultimately more government down our throats because of your personal moral code. Plenty of children become pregnant too thst aren't adults.

    • 8 months ago

      Why do you think this is a matter of statism? I'm following laws and precedents that already exists. It is morally right though, and constitutional. So what's the problem? Nothing. Quit perversing reality just to fit your agenda. You're KILLING people.

    • 8 months ago

      Because the state will be the regulator and the regulations will be payed by stealing from us with taxes as you libertarians put it. Stop pushing your moral agenda on women.

    • 8 months ago

      Dude why do you people think this has to do with women? If men could get pregnant I'd say the same thing.

    • 8 months ago

      "Quit perversing reality just to fit your agenda."

      You first.

    • 7 months ago

      This comment is the child of your comment. It is the offspring of your comment. It is the product or the result of something, which is all that being a child requires.

      Biologically, of course, you are correct – a fetus is not a child. A child is a human being between the stages of birth and …

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    • 7 months ago

      Keep speaking truth bro. Some people are just blind to good old fashioned common sense today.

    • 7 months ago

      Eric Guillermo Guzman that is, keep speaking truth bro

  • 8 months ago

    My brother doesn't really care about the abortion issue. It is subjective, you may feel a fetus is a human being but the woman who is pregnant may feel it's a body of cells and not a human being like me and you. If you had a sister who was raped by a family member would you be against its …

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    • 8 months ago

      There is no objectivity to when liberty begins. Therefore it's up to the woman as an individual to make that decision. Just because it's human tissue doesn't mean it's a human being. Its a subjective choice by the individual.

      • 8 months ago

        Saying your ok with the mother having an abortion when her life is in danger is placing more value on one life then the other.

        • 8 months ago
        • 8 months ago

          I'm debating it's a woman's choice. Liberty starting in the fetus is your opinion not fact. Just saying shit happens doesn't answer the fact that someone is dying. Your placing more value on the mother. You can just as easily let the baby live. Also I can't help when somethings subjective. That s …

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        • 8 months ago

          I'm not placing more value on anyone's life, I'd be pro-choice if I did that...

      • 8 months ago

        Abortion will not stop no matter what the law is. If it becomes illegal there will still be abortions except they will be extremely dangerous. It's called separation of church and state.

        • 8 months ago
        • 8 months ago

          Calling me stupid doesn't win arguments. I don't believe a fetus is a human being. Yes back alley abortions are far more dangerous then proper ones and if you disagree your a total fucking idiot.

        • 8 months ago

          You telling me I should believe a fetus is a human is your moral belief.

        • 8 months ago

          The point is that if abortion is outlawed it's not gonna fucking disappear it will result in more death of both mother and child.

        • 8 months ago

          1) I explicitly said I wasn't calling you stupid.
          2) You called me a fucking idiot so have fun with the hypocrisy of your own posts.
          3) Every fucking law is a moral belief, we just have to justify them with our constitution.
          4) Or maybe people will stop having abortions or even stop getting pregnant …

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        • 8 months ago

          You were downplaying my intelligence and we both know it. Look at country's where abortion is outlawed. It doesn't stop it becomes more dangerous and commonly the mother and child both fucking die.

        • 8 months ago

          1) downplaying your intelligence would be to stop arguing because I don't think you understand what I'm saying. But I'm still arguing because I respect you enough to think this can go somewhere.

          2) I literally say in the debate that there is no problem with abortion when the mother's life is in …

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        • 7 months ago

          With the words, "Calling me stupid doesn't win arguments," you had me nodding my head. Then you wrote, "If you disagree your [sic] a total fucking idiot." Hmm?

      • 8 months ago

        I can't see where you replied lol

        • 8 months ago

          I basically said that's not how self defense works, you're wrong.
          I also told you to stop pretending I brought up anything religious. I cussed a lot too, because you're one of many people to bring that up as if that matters.

      • 8 months ago

        It all comes down to whether a fetus is a human right? If I say it's just a body of cells who the he'll are you to tell me otherwise?

        • 8 months ago

          What kind of cells

        • 8 months ago

          The answer I'm looking for is "it is human cells" btw. This is what I said in the debate. It's not a giraffe. It's not a rock. It has human DNA. It's human cells. You are killing something that is human. You are taking a human life away.

        • 8 months ago

          Human cells. A kidney is made of human cells. Is it a human?

        • 8 months ago

          Dude what makes a human being is up to the woman to decide there is no objective answer just opinions.

        • 8 months ago

          You would be fine withe prosecution for murder if your sister were to have an abortion? You'll say yes but I truly don't think you would.

        • 8 months ago

          The truth is outlawing abortion will lead to more unnecessary death and there's no arguing around that no matter how much you try to degrade my intelligence.

        • 8 months ago

          There's human cells in my sperm as well. Should we start banning Condemns. The human cell argument is fucking dumb.

        • 8 months ago

          Well if you leave sperm alone and leave a fetus alone, what happens? The sperm does nothing. A fetus is born. It is a human. There is no problem with the argument.

      • 8 months ago

        Wanting government to jump in and save us from your personal moral dilemma makes you a statist.

        • 8 months ago

          Libertarians are statist...

        • 8 months ago

          I'm not a libertarian so I'm not sure of there beliefs but enlighten me on how libertarians are statist?

        • 8 months ago

          They believe in a state, they believe in a government, they are not anarchists.

        • 8 months ago

          Don't libertarians want to rid most functions of the state?

        • 8 months ago

          What a broad argument. That's like saying if I believe in child labor laws I'm a socialist. Libertarians are generally against state entities because they infringe on personal liberty. A statist isn't someone who simply believes in a nation state. How silly.

        • 8 months ago

          Definition of statism
          : concentration of economic controls and planning in the hands of a highly centralized government often extending to government ownership of industry

        • 8 months ago

          A libertarian believes that the government is meant to protect human rights, and I believe abortion is an infringement of human rights, so therefore I'm okay with government intervention here.

        • 8 months ago

          I don't know how you got to the socialist thing at all. Libertarians believe in government. If your definition of statism is authoritarian in nature then we aren't statist. But we believe in law, we believe in government. I can't get any more frank than that.

        • 8 months ago

          That definition of statism is cool but I've been called a statist a least 1 million times by anarchists. So being a statist or not, it doesn't change what libertarians believe or why libertarians should be pro life. Whatever statism means, Libertarians still do in fact believe in government.

        • 8 months ago

          No shit they believe in government but not government policing women and stripping them of there liberties. Your not a libertarian your just a neocon.

        • 8 months ago

          Women don't have the personal liberty to kill a human being. And I doubt you know what a neocon is either.

        • 8 months ago

          You want the state to protect the rights of a fetus with more government. The only thing we know for sure is the woman who is pregnant has rights. The fetus doesn't. Again outlawing abortion will make things worse not better for the human race.

        • 8 months ago

          The fetus SHOULD have rights. It is literally created at inception and only 9 months later it is born and is legally recognized. Why is "Birth" more of a qualifier for human rights than "conception"????

        • 7 months ago

          Most libertarians are anarchists or decentralists (who are fine with either anarchism or minarchist government as people choose in their communities.) MINARCHISTS wants a MINIMAL state of part-time nonprofessional legislatures and administrators as well as professional, police, courts and just …

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        • 7 months ago

          I have never met a libertarian minarchists who would use military force to stop individuals and communities from seceding from the union, though obviously they would deal with things like ethnic cleansing, land grabs, etc.

        • 7 months ago

          I never disagreed with those aspects of the state. I said statism means I prefer a state to exists. If that's not someone else's definition then that's kind of besides the point. I would simply categorize "abortion" as a homocidal act that is violent, and should be punishable. There's nothing "not-…

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      • 8 months ago

        One thing that we both can agree is objective is that a pregnant woman is a human being with rights. Outlawing abortion means treading on those rights because the existence of human cells in no way proves that a fetus is a human being.

      • 8 months ago

        Were never gonna agree bud. Let's just call it a night.

      • 7 months ago
        • 7 months ago

          According to isidewith.com not only did 0% of Libertarians polled call themselves 100% against abortion in all cases as my opponent argued, only 25% called them pro-life in general, and 67% agree with funding planned parenthood. Ron Paul believes Austin is the worst Libertarian candidate (well …

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        • 7 months ago

          @julian_cennamo "all cases as my opponent argued" is false, that wasn't my argument.

          @camren360 If you listened to the debate and read the comments, you'd know I recognized Libertarians do believe in a government and they believe the government is only meant to protect rights. If we agree abortion …

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        • 7 months ago

          You said even in cases of rape and Incest, and 0% of Libertarians polled took that position. Remember the sister question, The debate is over.

        • 7 months ago

          yet when the mother's life is in danger? That matters as well.

        • 7 months ago

          You say "most, if not all" in the debate. The sited poll doesn't quantify that opinion.

        • 7 months ago

          And it would still be 0% agreement in the poll anyway. Saying that there's a one and only an exception doesnt need to be quantified, when the a line has been drawn. You have represent an extreme opinion Eric.

        • 7 months ago

          Most, if not all are homicide. You have a problem with nuance.

        • 7 months ago

          The debates over.

        • 7 months ago

          The point of the comments is to continue debate, and if I want to rebut anything then I will. Our debate is over when you choose, but the overall debate can continue any way it wants.

        • 7 months ago

          Say something new than. You had your chance to talk about your issue. I told you I only cared enough about this for 20 minutes to win a contest beforehand for a reason.

        • 7 months ago

          I was responding to an obvious misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my argument, keep doing that and I'll keep replying.

        • 7 months ago

          Your just repeating the oldest stuff in the book. The exception of a "mothers life" is a poor comparison when the 0% line is drawn with "yes in cases of rape and incest. You're only describing the view from other side of the fence. Its an extreme opinion to entertain and it's really boring. …

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        • 7 months ago

          The line drawn by someone else is not my point of contention. My point was conception creates life. You can do as many mental gymnastics you want and group think as hard as you can but that is intellectually dishonest and you know it. I'd wager it looks the same way as the view from the first …

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        • 7 months ago

          That doesn't even make sense. My point is that your opinion is not libertarian because 0% percent of polled libertarians take such an extreme position and only 27% share a prolife opinion in general.

          "Group think"?

          "Mental Gymnastics"?

          I'm no longer a fan of Ayn Rand, but when I was 17 I read the …

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        • 7 months ago

          The debate wasn't "what libertarians are." It was "what should they be." Based on their own principles, they should be pro life. That poll means nothing to me for a plethora of reasons but the main reason I want to address is it's just not appropriate for our debate.

          I'm sorry you've yet to …

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        • 7 months ago

          I don't give a shit if you want to face the reality that your opinion is non agreement with the majority of libertarianism or not.

          The only thing you can argue is parimeter trap and I'm a lot smarter than that . There is nothing to learn from you. Be thankful I gave you the time after you backed …

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        • 7 months ago
        • 7 months ago

          I debated you to win. I said "that's all I have" because its because I wasn't getting into it. I don't want saints either. 🎻

        • 7 months ago

          I said a lot after that too. I was just testing my case. This is boring. Just like I predicted.

        • 7 months ago

          And I love you too buddy. This was my first head to head experience, and imagine I will get a lot of flattering follow ups. But this is truly special👏

        • 7 months ago

          I say that I cannot and will not make this moral decision in my opening counter argument. Repeating the same circle saw argument whereby realigning the original position as a goal post failed you this time.

        • 7 months ago

          Remember when I said "I can't draw that line but I'm sure you will"?

        • 6 months ago

          @camren360 still interested? I am!

      • 7 months ago
        • 7 months ago

          That's a fair point. Never thought to clarify, I didn't mean "should" as in "they have to." It's more of a "You would think they would be".

          Like if someone is in the military, they should stand up for the pledge. They don't have to, but you'd guess they would.

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        • 7 months ago
        • 7 months ago

          When I'm talking about the drug war it's because of the 55 and a half billion dollar cost difference between funding it and planned parenthood. You had no answer for how the you inforce an illegal abortion policy. Unlike the more popular prolife libertarian arguments I compared you to. You are …

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        • 7 months ago

          The statistics show a 3/4 majority of Libertarians support prochoice. It's always been part of their platform and was Ayn Rands position as I quoted. Eric's position represented 0% of polled Libertarians. Ron Paul is the only candidate the LP had with talent, and he had to run as a Republican …

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        • 7 months ago
        • 7 months ago

          To touch on this quick cus i have to go, parties change lime i said, i know plenty of republican viters that want demacratic ideas, and vise versa. It's just the ppl in the party they not all black n white. They lime most ideas but not all.

        • 7 months ago

          Don't fool yourself, my dear. You're much worse than a bitch. You're a saint. Which shows why saints are dangerous and undesirable.
          Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

          The religious right should try the constitution party instead.

      • 7 months ago

        The Question Isn’t Who Is Going to Let Me, It’s Who Is Going to Stop Me.

        • 7 months ago

          All libertarians are pro-life. The relevant question you should ask is: Should all libertarians be abortion prohibitionists? That IS the question most people ARE answering, and they are saying NO! It is not even clear if YOU, who originated this survey, are an Abortion Prohibitionist. Please …

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          • 7 months ago

            If you believe the government's purpose is to defend your rights, then you would be a prohibitionist of many things. Slavery and Murder come to mind. I'm a slavery and murder prohibitionist. I don't mind adding abortion prohibitionist because it infringes on the rights of the fetus.

            And yes, it …

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          • 7 months ago

            "I don't mind adding abortion prohibitionist because it infringes on the rights of the fetus."

            But what about the rights of the carrier of said fetus? Granted, those are usually women and trans men, and you've demonstrated in the past to be at best dismissive of their concerns...

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        • 7 months ago

          I feel that the libertarian party fills a very niche role in today's politicial environment. One of the things that makes
          being libertarian so appealing, especially to young adults is the freedom of choice. By taking that away and trying to make libertarians fall under the umbrella of pro life, you …

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          • 7 months ago

            You guys really think killing an innocent little human being is a choice of freedom. Like wow.

          • 7 months ago

            It's not a human being, not yet anyway, but why bring things like science and reality into it? Anti-aboriton laws are inherently misogynistic as they are the government enforcing their will on the bodies of those with uteruses. I mean, did you ever stop to think (pfft) for a second just how big a …

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          • 7 months ago

            The size of bureaucracy requires is about the same size as needed to ensure murder and slavery don't exist, yeah I can fathom that.

        • 7 months ago

          This argument would only be true if all Libertarians agreed that fetuses were capable of possessing rights. As far as I know, this is not part of the Libertarian definition. Therefore, a more accurate proposition would be, "Some Libertarians should be pro-life."

          • 7 months ago

            Yeah, the argument hinges on someone figuring out that the fetus has rights. But he didn't want to discuss that possibility. And the Libertarian's main idea is "No one infringes on human rights." If it's has rights, which was up for debate and I put forth my best arguments that it does, then …

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          • 7 months ago

            Eric, I agree that conception is the definitive precursor to new human life, assuming you mean that at conception a new member of the species Homo sapiens is created. But that doesn't mean I believe that at conception a new person is created.

            You might disagree that this distinction exists — or …

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          • 7 months ago

            I guess I see that perspective, which then I would ask why would you not agree that a new person is created. Like I don't see what difference there is that justifies two separate classifications under penalty of law.

          • 7 months ago

            To make a chocolate cake, you combine sugar, flour, cocoa powder, baking powder, baking soda, salt, eggs, milk, vegetable oil, vanilla, and water. Yes, it's a cakey mixture as soon as you stir these ingredients together in a bowl, but it's not a cake. It's not a cake until you bake it. However, …

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        • 4 months ago

          Libertarians can say that they think that fetuses should not be aborted because they believe in the liberties of the soon-to-be-human. But in reality, Libertarians are all about no government. Should that not include government regulations in the body of the woman? So libertarians should be …

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          • 4 months ago

            Your argument is that the right of the fetus is being infringed upon. Does something that has no will, have rights? Do you give ants rights? They have more will than a fetus.