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  • julian_cennamo
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  • loganfleckenstein
  • 4 months ago

    He's back!

    • 4 months ago

      These 2 should watch the other debate that happened between Libertarians on marijuana legalization in Arizona

      • 4 months ago

        I did watch part of that. I was hoping this debate wouldn't end up like that.

      • 4 months ago

        Actually your debate was far more insightful tbh

      • 4 months ago

        That is what I was going for. I didn't want to have a purely libertarian argument. If there's one thing this debate has taught me its that I need to make sure I have an agreement with peeps over what decriminalization means.

      • 4 months ago

        @matt_callert25 lol I was just about to share the link to @vanngutier debate here

      • 4 months ago

        My definition is the legal definition, and by that definition there are different degrees, from nonpenalization, the system we now have, to plain decriminalization where the user is no longer considered criminal, to nonenforcement. Which is the system we both want for the most part, but define …

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      • 4 months ago

        I hope you mean that you learned more about the issue from a legal standpoint.

    • 4 months ago

      Awesome debate guys

      • 4 months ago

        I'm the clear victor here. My opponent was confused. He did not refute a single point.

        • 4 months ago

          I feel like @loganfleckenstein more effectively argued for his position because he didn't limit himself to just the strict definitions relevant to the topic. He brought up legitimizing marijuana from a social and moral perspective which is a huge point in this debate. That's not something that …

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          • 4 months ago

            If you are not talking from a legal standpoint you do not understand the issue, because there is no legitimization. It's illegal no matter what. When you say you want "legal" marijuana you are only redefining nonpenalization, you're actually signing away rights. I hope you, Logan, and the …

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          • 4 months ago

            Yea but that is just one point in a very complex issue and you can't ignore the facts here. @julian_cennamo addressed exactly how this would play out in a very real sense and he also successfully refuted @loganfleckenstein's main point about taxes which basically unraveled his argument

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          • 4 months ago

            @julian_cennamo I'm just curious, do you believe in decriminalization as a good step towards eventual legalization or do you want decriminalization as the final legislation in the foreseeable future when it comes to weed?

            Also, always calling your opponent "confused" and "not understanding the …

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          • 4 months ago

            Absolutely. Further decriminalization is the only step toward true legalization. Again, it's only depenalized. The further steps are pure decriminalization, whereby the user is not considered a criminal as they would be today and therefore could not be penalized(as Logan kept suggesting), …

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        • @julian_cennamo likes to talk loudly to make a point, but it's not effective at all. Logan had solid definitions and clear communication. So from a debater stand point, Logan won.

          Actual Debate though:

          Point 1 - Defining whether it's a state's rights issue or a federal issue doesn't make it less or …

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          • 4 months ago

            Eric, stop being a sore loser. You're loaded question argument was boring and doomed for failure.

            1. If you understood the law you would know that the federal and international ban overrides states rights. Logan didn't understand that either.

            2. Moving the schedule class has everything to do …

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          • UN can't do anything to us. The reason all 4 of your points were moot was because the same arguments could be made for legalization. You didn't substantiate anything properly, mostly because you didn't have good arguments.

            Legalization means that you can have a ready market where everyone …

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          • 4 months ago

            You couldn't argue any issue but abortion and it was the same old tired loaded argument fallacy nonsense. I honestly wonder if you ever substantiated any argument in your life.
            Offering another false equivalence by insulting me without substantiating isn't making you look any better!

            I on other hand …

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          • So you're saying we are on a path towards legalization... which means ultimately you're okay with legalization... so then let's just go for legalization.

            I think you chose a losing fight here. Decriminalization sounds like another stringent regulation on our lives. Legalization is the opposite. …

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          • 4 months ago

            I'm saying we can't go for legalization under the system we now. It's impossible. I'm defining the best solution from an educated, ethical, and most impotartly legal standpoint. It's not a pointless and subjective debate about what ideology sounds better. It's a proactive illustration of a …

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          • You must not understand what legalization means. If weed were as easily accessible as soda, you could make money on it. There would be no fines or penalization if it were legalized. That's the point.

            The kiddo line is cute because I told you that first by the way.

          • 4 months ago

            Eric. Ideologically is not practically. It's the legal definition of the word "legal" and how it's being applied. It cannot be legal, therefore it can only be decrimalized.

            If it were "legal" by true definition it would apply to more than state law or federal law. And those bodies of law …

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          • I don't think you understand what legal or illegal means.

          • 4 months ago

            No. Eric you don't understand what legal means. It's hardly legal if someone can still kick down your door and arrest you , you can loose your job for medical use, and a doctor can't help you. That's just language someone is using. Decriminalization is what means a person cannot be procecuted …

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          • Dude in what universe are people being penalized or fined for legal substances like soda, or cheese? If it's legal then there is no problem. I genuinely don't understand why this is so difficult to accept.

          • 4 months ago

            No. You're confused. There is very real and huge problem because people are still being procecuted in federal courts, even when they are protected under state law. They also can loose employment and a doctor cannot help them. It's a play on words and verbiage. By saying "legal" you're granting an …

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          • 4 months ago

            That's actually a great simple explainer video

          • 4 months ago

            Great analysis @ericguillermoguzman

          • 4 months ago

            I just went through the entire thread between @ericguillermoguzman and @julian_cennamo and I have to say this is a very informative debate and clearly unresolved, with interesting points being made on both sides (not withstanding the personal insults which should be toned down!) this is not an …

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          • 4 months ago

            What is unresolved? I nailed and killed it all the way. Logan and I agree at the beginning the debate is about solutions and he and Eric offered none. Eric's attempt at crossfire statements are the most unfounded and ridiculous BS I've heard in a long time. And I've heard a lot, so imagine …

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          • 4 months ago

            Because reloading the same "I don't understand the question" fallacy is hardly a point or worth entertaining. Logan and I will recap after I win the tournament.

          • 4 months ago

            What's great about it?

          • 4 months ago

            Watch the United Nations destroy the marijuana crop here:
            http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=drYqL6ezhSs

            Read about how a medical marijuana patient in Colorado still lost their job after the initiative passed, won an appeal based on a 1970s bill that prevented them from being held crimally liable, but …

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