@harrowdenbooks Ready when you are!
Michael bring your volume down a bit please to avoid echo
@shmu I hope you find time for my debate request as well.
@julian_cennamo I will try my best. Although, I'd rather debate something else, seeing as this debate and my previous debate with @rydawson pretty much covered the entire spectrum.I look forward to coming up with a time to get a debate done, and to hashing out a topic that works for both of us.
@shmu great! I had a feeling actually. That was a great debate. I really admired how civil and polite it was, and your willingness to debate him, because of his following. How about "US does not benefit from special Israeli relationship"? I'm also in the Eastern time zone. 7-9 PM, or 8AM is good. However, I will not be free tomorrow evening. I'm also free this upcoming Monday I really appreciate your time and look forward.
@shmu I understand if you need a minute. But you didn't cover how the relationship is beneficial to US. I hope I can look forward to the discussion because I know you will be challenging. I've actually having a lot of trouble finding someone interested in debating this topic and would appreciate your comments.
Obstruction-of-Justice is almost completely universal around the world. If you resist arrest, interfer in operations, or thwart the efforts of a governing body in any way, you will be detained.
@woodox87 er yep. Does that make it right? were the Nazis right to detain Frenchmen...?
@bookman the Nazis weren't trying to defend themselves from an onslaught of radical terrorism - which is illegal and immoral, by the way. It is perfectly legal, and moral, to arrest people who aid or harbour criminals. Additionally, anyone thwarts the efforts of an agency of any kind to bring then to justice.Comparing Israel to the Nazi is a dirty move, sir.
@woodox87 care to debate me on that?
@woodox87 yes, I guess it is, you're right. It's wrong of me to compare Israel to the Nazis. The Israelis are worse: They have the vote and choose to perpetuate the situation, the German People did not have a vote after 1933...
@woodox87 actually woodox87. The Palestinian resistance is NOT terrorism. It being the legal right (enshrined in International Law) that an occupied people may resist occupation with force. Look it up.
@woodox87 No. It's more like "resistance to the Will of Washington" is terrorism....
@woodox87 i see you've shied off debating me. Not surprised I guess...
I would not say that Israel is a 'rogue' state but it's definitely violating international law and has indeed committed war crimes.Israel has the right to exist, it does NOT have the right to exist the way it's existing.
@japes16 in what way is it violating it?
@woodox87 the majority of the world agrees that it is violating international law by maintaining its occupation of the Palestinians.. when i say the majority of the world, i mean 80% of the UN states VOTED several times that it's illegally occupying Palestinian land.When 80% of the UN states agree that it is illegal, doesn't that make it illegal? the same UN that gave Israel the land it has today, also voted that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian lands.If we agree the UN vote in 1948 was legit, then their vote about the illegal occupation is ALSO legit, would you not agree?
@japes16 to me, consensus is not the catalyst for truth, so universal agreement doesn't make something true. That aside, what international law is it that Isreal is violating? It is perfectly legal to occupy the land of a hostile force until peaceable agreements have been made. I don't think any such agreement exists, to date. However, what I've heard argued is that Isreal is illegally building settlements in Palestinian terriority. This would only be true if that terriority was officially annexed as Palestine. To my knowledge, that has never been done. So, that territory technically is being held captive by Jordan and Iran after the six day war. If that land officially belongs to a recognized Palestinian state, then, yes, they are violating the law, but I don't believe such thing has ever happened.
@woodox87 the colonilization of the occupied territories that have been condemned by the UN as well proliferation of nuclear weapons in secret qualify rouge status.
Israel has the right to defend itself... it's not a rogue state if it is defending itself from terrorist attacks!!!!
Israel has *Israel*, it does not have the West Bank.
@derrickthekid Israel needs to maintain its occupation for security reasons
@trentr26 yep, like forever...
@trentr26 what they're doing there goes far beyond security reasons. Colonization is not security at all.
@shmu even if you are right and Israelis are not allowed to fire first (this is great btw), this doesn't justify disproportionate retaliation does it? So if someone throws your molotov and knives you basically respond with dozens of bombs and rockets? Or killing wounded attackers? Yeah the soldier got charged with manslaughter but the problem is that the majority of Israel including the PM were not happy about it which shows the moral and intention of Israelis...
@votesaad thanks for your comments. I absolutely agree.
Bottom line and let's stick to the argument. According to the definition of "rogue states", there's no way Israel is one! Shmu won. End of debate!
@s_benz a) they do sponser terrorism. ie the lavon affair. b) the documented human rights violations are countless. I don't even know where to begin. C) they developed nuclear weapons, secretly, they still won't own up to it, buts no secret, it is confirmed by US intelligence and use them as well as chemical weapons. The US always knew there were. And that's also documented.
@shmu he is right about immigration, immigrating to America is extremely restricted...
@trentr26 Immigration is not the debate topic. He might be right about that, but we're talking about being a rogue state
Totally true about Israel meds and hospitals taking care of the Syrians! It was all over the news recently
@s_benz actually, it's hilarious, because they've not only been accused of aiding ISIS in Syria with medical care, but as recent as last week, bombed Assads forces.
@shmu more than 40% of my country is inhabited (forests, mountains etc). I guess Israel or our neighbors should feel free to come and settle there????
@votesaad Is uninhabited? I'm not sure what your point is...
@shmu sorry my bad :-) you mentioned that settlements are on uninhabited land...even if we assume you are right (I have friends whose houses got demolished..) it's still not right!
@votesaad Lol all good! I don't believe you understood completely where I was trying too go with that statement. It was in response to where Mike mentioned that all "settlements" are on inhabited lands where people were kicked out of their houses, and remain with the keys to this day. I was not intimating in any way that just because a land is uninhabited a person can come in and take it - so no, I don't Israel or your neighbor will come in and take your 40% uninhabited land.
@shmu fair enough, I was being a bit sarcastic. So I guess you agree that there is not justification for the illegal settlements wherever they are based.
@harrowdenbooks Eurovision!!!!!!!!!!!! ahahahaha
Thanks a lot guys, looking forward to the next one!
i've updated my user name to "bookman" cos books are my business...
Even if America were a rouge state, that's not an argument, because it doesn't qualify the accusations as appropriate or ethical.
The UN and US are not going to call Israel a rouge state, when they created, and pay for it either.