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  • 2 years ago

    I'd love to here an elaboration (and examples) @richhobo

    • 2 years ago

      @yaz I have accidentally hit cancel instead of post three times now. I'm gonna type up my comment in Word so I don't accidentally delete it again.

      Edit: Here it is

      Antifascism, at its core, is noble idea but, much like the red pill movement, it is ruined by the toxic views of those that subscribe to it. Antifascist claim to be dedicated to fighting fascism, but as the events of Wednesday and Thursday show, they either happen to be unaware of what fascism actually is, or they have decided to expand their movement to oppose anything to the right of their own views. Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, because people oppose views to the left and right of their own all the time, but the tactics used by antifas, who are essentially militant left-wingers, are fairly nasty.

      On Wednesday, Milo Yiannopoulos was to give a talk at UC Berkeley, but was met by a throng of masked protesters who proceeded to riot, assault attendees, pepper spraying some and knocking several others unconscious, set fire to the campus, and throw bricks at police officers who were present. On Thursday (yesterday), Gavin McInnes gave a talk at NYU, where he was met by an antifa group who attempted to assault him when he arrived, assaulted several of his supporters, and then lit “MAGA” hats that had been stolen from attendees on fire. “Protesters” at both events carried signs that said things such as “This is War.” Last February, Ben Shapiro was given much the same treatment at UC LA, though the majority of that crowd were members of the local BLM movement, with antifas making up a smaller section. The problem, besides engaging in violence and burning things, is that none of them are fascists. Milo and Gavin are conservatives who say and do outrageous things, and Ben is a conservative who is significantly less outrageous, but none of them are advocating for a return of the Third Reich, but they’re being met with violence meant to shut down any chance they have at speaking before they are even able to.
      In their crusade against fascism, antifas have become so misguided that they’re using fascist tactics to try to shut down anything they deem to be fascist. Even when they find actual fascists (which is rare because fascism isn’t actually that popular in the US outside of the very small population of neo nazis) they end up just escalating things until the police have to step in. Last summer, in Sacramento, roughly four hundred “counter protestors” targeted a Neo Nazi rally that had maybe forty attendees at most, rushing them with sticks and various other makeshift weapons. The Neo Nazis had apparently been expecting trouble though, and the end result was bruises for the Neo Nazis and at least eight members of the antifas stabbed before the Sacramento police stepped in.

      Counter protesting is one thing, and should certainly be done when neo Nazis are involved, but engaging in violence to silence dissenting opinions is far more fascist than it is antifascist.


      Here's the video of the clash in Sacramento. https://youtu.be/S4S456hjt1E

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo thanks for letting me know... noted. We will fix it, keep the feedback coming plz

    • 2 years ago

      @yaz It wasn't a problem with the layout, it was user error. I was fiddling with the sensitivity on my mouse earlier and it kept throwing me off. The sites looking good.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "Antifascism, at its core, is noble idea but, much like the red pill movement, it is ruined by the toxic views of those that subscribe to it."

      This is such an idiotic thing to say I really have no joke sufficient enough to counter it.

      "Antifascist claim to be dedicated to fighting fascism, but as the events of Wednesday and Thursday show, they either happen to be unaware of what fascism actually is, or they have decided to expand their movement to oppose anything to the right of their own views. "

      A lie. A bold faced, fascist defending lie.

      "Normally this wouldn’t be an issue, because people oppose views to the left and right of their own all the time, but the tactics used by antifas, who are essentially militant left-wingers, are fairly nasty. "

      Delete your account. Fairly nasty? Really? People like you are literally the same kind of "moderate" German who let the Nazis rise to power because you value your own comfort over the LIVES of marginalized people. Where's your rage over Milo, the guy who was being protesteD? Do you know why he was there? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/uc-berkely-protests-milo-yiannopoulos-publicly-name-undocumented-students-cancelled-talk-illegals-a7561321.html And he has outed trans students as well, making them targets for harassment. Where's your concern for them? Shut the entire f*** up with Antifa being "fairly nasty."

      "On Wednesday, Milo Yiannopoulos was to give a talk at UC Berkeley,"

      To encite hate and violence, as I pointed out above.

      "The problem, besides engaging in violence and burning things, is that none of them are fascists."

      Yes they are. Stop lying.

      "Milo and Gavin are conservatives who say and do outrageous things, and Ben is a conservative who is significantly less outrageous, but none of them are advocating for a return of the Third Reich, but they’re being met with violence meant to shut down any chance they have at speaking before they are even able to."

      Read your history. The Nazis didn't start out advocating genocide. That came after they were in power. Shapiro is less bad than the other two, especially Milo, sure. But that's not a high bar. Milo is a hatemonger who organizes racist harrasment campaigns against people of color on Twitter, especially women. Especially Leslie Jones whose only "crime" was being in the Ghostbuster remake. The First Amendment doesn't protect hate speech. Look up the term "encitement" sometime.

      "In their crusade against fascism, antifas have become so misguided that they’re using fascist tactics to try to shut down anything they deem to be fascist."

      Nope.

      "Even when they find actual fascists (which is rare because fascism isn’t actually that popular in the US outside of the very small population of neo nazis)"

      When they find actual fascists, you get upset that the fascist's feelings were hurt and call the anti-fascists who went after them fascists.

      "The Neo Nazis had apparently been expecting trouble though, and the end result was bruises for the Neo Nazis and at least eight members of the antifas stabbed before the Sacramento police stepped in. "

      And yet it's the anti-Nazis you are upset about. You are just a horrible, HORRIBLE, person. You may think you're being a reasonable moderate here, but your "reason" has led you to literally sympathizing with literal Nazis.

      "Counter protesting is one thing, and should certainly be done when neo Nazis are involved, but engaging in violence to silence dissenting opinions is far more fascist than it is antifascist. "

      Dissenting opinions? Really? Fascism is just a dissenting opinion? No. It is not. It is hate. It is advocating for genocide and mass murder. You don't fight that with a "free exchange of ideas." If stopping that kind of thing with just words could've worked, we wouldn't have had a second World War.

      What the top marginal tax rate should be is difference of opinion. Milo, and his ilk, and weak-willed cowards like you who sit back and let it happen because you value your own personal comfort over the lives of possibly millions that could be ruined by the monsters you are defending here

      Fascists want us to be non-violent. That's how they win. By making us too scared to act. I can see it's already worked on you.

      #MakeNazisAfraidAgain

      "I'll punch a Nazi in the dick.
      I'll punch a Nazi 'til he's sick.
      I'll punch a Nazi, it's not wrong.
      I'll punch a Nazi all day liong."

      - Jamie Kilstein

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Nice to see that you're still crazy. It was reported by Berkeley officials, who didn't want Milo to talk in the first place, are the ones who said that he was going to oust undocumented students. Except that they offered no evidence to substantiate their point. He didn't even out the trans student. He used a photo from a public new source was his usual asshole self.

      They already in power as well. In case you missed the last several months, Trump got elected. Milo is more popular than he's ever been. Your fantasy that the Nazis have come back and are taking over, and your violent reaction to it have made them significantly more popular than they otherwise one have been. When you engage in violence against someone because of their views, you give anyone who isn't as radical as you a little idea of "huh, maybe the guys who are being violent are doing it because they don't have anything else to offer." Trump would never have won without the far lefts reaction to him. He would have been the joke that everyone predicted when he announced his run and we would have ended up with Clinton or maybe Cruz/Rubio, but damnit if the crazies didn't have to see Nazis in the shadows and go nuts.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "Nice to see that you're still crazy."

      Says the man who thinks anti-fascists are the new fascists.

      "He didn't even out the trans student. He used a photo from a public new source was his usual asshole self. "

      Liar.

      http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yiannopoulos-harassed-a-trans-student-at-uw-milwaukee.html

      BTW, why are you more angry about the property damage than about a Milo fan literally shooting someone? Oh, wait, it's because you're a Nazi sympathizing piece of garbage. You have the same kind of relationship with "Free Speech" as Al Qaeda has with Islam.

      http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/01/23/24818143/update-on-friday-nights-shooting-at-the-uw-milo-yiannopoulos-demonstration

      "In case you missed the last several months, Trump got elected. Milo is more popular than he's ever been."

      Which is just proof that there are a lot of horrible people in this country.

      "Your fantasy that the Nazis have come back and are taking over, and your violent reaction to it have made them significantly more popular than they otherwise one have been."

      Right. Fantasy. *eyeroll*

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

      http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/texas-high-school-students-make-nazi-salute-and-shout-hail-trump-in-senior-class-photos/

      http://www.weeklystandard.com/vanity-fair-trump-kept-a-volume-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bedside/article/2001343

      http://www.thefader.com/2017/01/26/trump-crimes-committed-immigrants-nazi

      Also, how dumb are you? Being violent towards Nazis makes them more popular? Yeah, sure. That's why Hitler won WWIII. *shakes head* Did no one ever tell you you're supposed to stop the Q-tip when there's resistance?

      "When you engage in violence against someone because of their views, you give anyone who isn't as radical as you a little idea of "huh, maybe the guys who are being violent are doing it because they don't have anything else to offer.""

      So, in your book, burning hats is worse than advocating for policies that lead to ethnic cleansing. Yeah, forget deleting your account. You should kill yourself. You literally have that little to offer the world if you can look at people with literal Nazi ideas, and the people who oppose them, with everything we know about what the Third Reich was like, and think that both sides are "equally bad." Fascists are worse than anti-fascists. To think otherwise is to be pro-fascist. Period.

      "Trump would never have won without the far lefts reaction to him."

      Yep, you totally would've made excuses for Hitler if this was the 1930s. I suppose you also think wife beaters would never have hit their wives if their wives hadn't done anything to deserve it. This is literally the same type of logic. You are victim blaming trash. Nazis are only in power because of anti-Nazis? That's pathetic reasoning from a pathetic human being. Kill yourself.

      "He would have been the joke that everyone predicted when he announced his run and we would have ended up with Clinton or maybe Cruz/Rubio, but damnit if the crazies didn't have to see Nazis in the shadows and go nuts."

      More scummy victim blaming. To be expected from someone with the empathy level of John Wayne Gacy. You're seeing Nazis in the shadows and thinking "Now now, let's hear them out. No need for such a strong reaction." If I'm crazy, it's only because I am seeing the history I actually paid attention to school repeating itself, and monsters like you are letting it happen just 'cause your "precious snowflake" feelings were hurt by the people trying to stop it.

      You are sympathizing with Nazis. This makes you a Nazi. And the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo Ah, found another good way to put my counterpoint.

      "No offense but "agreeing to disagree" is alright for "I like coffee but you like tea" and not "I like you but you shouldn't have rights""

      Amazing how much you cna convery in 140 characters or less. Thanks, Twitter. :)

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Telling people to literally kill themselves? You're blinded to your own insanity. The fuck is wrong with you? Are you actually an alt-right troll? Because that seems to be a common tactic of theirs. I may be victim blaming trash in your eyes, but how the fuck can you sleep at night when you tell people to fucking kill themselves? Of all the toxic shit on the internet, you are by far the most putrid.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "Telling people to literally kill themselves? You're blinded to your own insanity."

      The people you're defending do that all the time. Sucks, doesn't it? Now if only you could find it in yourself to have sympathy for the people who receive that kind of comment dozens if not hundreds of times of day from the same kind of assholes you want me to treat with respect they've not earned and probably never will.

      "I may be victim blaming trash in your eyes, but how the fuck can you sleep at night when you tell people to fucking kill themselves? Of all the toxic shit on the internet, you are by far the most putrid."

      You defend Milo, attack Antifa, then say this. You completely lack any sense of irony.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle I just said they weren't fascists and shouldn't be assaulted, but you're literally a mirror image of them. You're no better than they are.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "I just said they weren't fascists"

      Which is a lie.

      " and shouldn't be assaulted,"

      If they weren't fascists, I'd agree. But they are. So punch them in the face, or shut the F up.

      "but you're literally a mirror image of them."

      You don't know what the word literally means, do you? You just admitted that I am the polar opposite of a fascist, even as your whole argument is based on the STUPID idea that Anti-fascists are as bad as fascists. Which not a thing good or smart people believe. Like, at all.

      "You're no better than they are."

      Yes, I am. I don't out trans students. Milo does. I don't shoot protestors. Milo fans do. I don't harras Black actresses. Milo and his fans do. I don't write for anti-Semitic websites. Milo does.

      How dead are you inside that you can look at a bully, and at people who stand up to the bully, and think they're one in the same? Turns out I don't need to tell you to kill yourself. You've been dead all along.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle No you aren't. You see fascists where there aren't any. You advocate for violence because you're unable to argue against them. How full of hatred are you? How much have you been hurt in the past to drive you to such lengths? Have you talked it out? I'm legitimately worried for you. I hope you find some kind of internal peace someday.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "You see fascists where there aren't any."

      Correction; you don't see fascists where there are.

      "You advocate for violence because you're unable to argue against them."

      Another lie from richhobo. What a shock. I advocate for fighting fascists because being nice to them, historically, doesn't work. Read a history book about WWII some time. You might find it enlightening. Or you'll just dismiss them all as SJW bullshit. Equally as likely.

      "How full of hatred are you?"

      Hatred of fascists? Oh, going to the first time I saw pictures of the death camps in history class.

      "How much have you been hurt in the past to drive you to such lengths?"

      Personally, not at all. But I have trans friends. Immigrant friends. Mexican friends. Muslim friends. All of whom will be hurt at best, killed at worst, by the ideas spread by the scum you want me to play nice with. The question isn't, how can I be so full of hate towards fascists. The REAL question is, how can you NOT?

      "I'm legitimately worried for you."

      I'm not the one defending the feelings of fascists. If anyone has cause to be worried about anyone, it's me being worried about you. Specifically, I'm worried about how easy it's gonna be to get you to put on the brownshirts if it ever comes to that (which hopefully it won't because we know now that fists have a better chance of stopping these people than words).

      "I hope you find some kind of internal peace someday."

      I hope someday you find what little humanity you have left and realize that calling people who hate fascists as bad as fascists makes you the kind of person who sat back in Germany and did nothing when the ovens started.

  • 2 years ago

    Nope. Fascism isn't just some other political opinion. it is an ideology that leads to innocent people getting killed. it leads to genocide. And if a few windows get broken and a few Pepe pin wearing racists get punched in the face in the process to stop these people, so be it. At least we're not carpet bombing Dresden, an act that post-war audits suggest had no effect on the war effort and the Nazis would've lost anyway.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle You're right, Fascism is unique among political ideologies in that it survives by maintaining conflict and using violence is its primary tool for maintaining power. You're willingness to justify violence for your righteous cause is eerily similar to it actually.

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "You're willingness to justify violence for your righteous cause is eerily similar to it actually."

      Nope. Anti-fascism is not the same as fascism. Only very, very stupid people think this. Stupid people who should just never talk about politics again because their grasp of the subject is comparable to that of a 4-yuear old who has taken a near-fatal blow to the head from a whiffle ball bat.

      Fascists: I think we should ethnically cleanse the country.
      Anti-Fascist: *punches fascist in the face*
      @richhobo: I can't see the difference here.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Antifascism may be opposite of fascism, but your willingness to justify your violent tendencies certainly isn't

    • 2 years ago

      @richhobo "Antifascism may be opposite of fascism, but you're willingness to justify your violent tendencies certainly isn't"

      Your willingness to defend racists and serial harassers makes you the opposite of a moral person. Delete your account.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle I think you should go back debating on video

  • 2 years ago

    Who are the fascists today? I have't seen any.

    • 2 years ago
    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Trump isn't an authoritarian, nor is he seeking more power. He is actually removing power from the fed via limits on regulations and decreasing the budget.

    • 2 years ago

      @meta_self "Trump isn't an authoritarian,"

      Yes he is. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/16/opinions/trump-following-authoritarian-playbook-ben-ghiat/

      "He is actually removing power from the fed via limits on regulations and decreasing the budget."

      Decreasing the budget by building an expensive wall? Wow, you are even more stupid than I thought, and I already thought it was shocking that you were capable of operating a computer.

      BTW, those limits on regulations aren't a good thing you f***ing moron. Lax and unenforced regulations is what leads to poisoned water supplies in Flint, salmonella on spinach, and predatory lending practices that cost innocent families their homes.

      Your philosophy is one that makes you think that there would be fewer chicken deaths if only we let foxes run the coop.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle I don't see how the article is anything more than a liberal fake news fever dream.

      We aren't going to pay for the wall. Eventually, we will get it back from Mexico.

      It was regulation that hurt flint. The errors were made by regulators.

      No, I think we would have more chickens if more people were able to obtain them and sell them without much outside control.

    • 2 years ago

      @meta_self "I don't see how the article is anything more than a liberal fake news fever dream. "

      You don't get to call things fake news when your side propagated the Pizzagate myth. Stay in your lane.

      "We aren't going to pay for the wall. Eventually, we will get it back from Mexico. "

      Keep telling yourself that cupcake. It'll never be true, but I'm sure you'll convince yourself since you clearly value what you think is true over what is actually true, like any good cultist.

      "It was regulation that hurt flint. The errors were made by regulators. "

      Another filthy lie from the filthy liar. It was corrupt Republican officials, like the one you voted for President because you lack both morals and intellect. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/20/465545378/lead-laced-water-in-flint-a-step-by-step-look-at-the-makings-of-a-crisis

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Elite pedo rings are anything but a myth... You tell me what that pizza hotdog code means in the wiki leaks?

      Listen, you actual cupcake, we run Mexico's trade. They depend on us. We don't need them, they need us. If you knew about negations you would call this a leg up.

      And those officials were regulators, like the emergency manager.


      Jeez, no one likes you here. You know that right?

    • 2 years ago

      @meta_self "Elite pedo rings are anything but a myth... You tell me what that pizza hotdog code means in the wiki leaks?"

      It doesn't mean anything because it's fake and you're an idiot for believing it.

      "Listen, you actual cupcake, we run Mexico's trade. They depend on us. We don't need them, they need us. If you knew about negations you would call this a leg up."

      Again, keep telling yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night.

      "And those officials were regulators, like the emergency manager."

      The Emergency Manager, who was appointed by a Republican Governor, who took over from the local elected officials and acted by fiat. So of course, you blame Democrats. Becuase you, like most Trump voters, are too stupid to live.

      But, no, it wasn't regulations. Regulations would've meant that the water transfer wouldn't have been done once they knew the new water source wasn't safe. But the Republican state officials did it anyway to save money, becuase money matters more than human life to them. Becuase they are trash. Just like you.

      "Jeez, no one likes you here. You know that right?"

      Yeah, they hate me so much they keep asking me to do more H2H debates. *eyeroll* Whatever, Nazi.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Have you investigated, no so you don't know what's going on.

      You don't know anything about making deals.

      I don't care what party was elected. The problem is too much government regulation. I'm not a republican.

      They ask everyone for H2H debates. No one likes reading the verbal diarrhea you leave on these threads. You're obviously too pussy to act that way on camera in front of the person you're calling a bigot. Not surprising.