@deusvult, I've never met a single Christian who would disagree with this proposition.
@chasuk I have. There are a couple at my church who are fanatical in their belief that the Bible is inerrant, has never changed, and to question any part of it is the same thing as heresy. It's incredibly annoying.
@deusvult: Respectfully, those are not incompatible beliefs. I was raised attending churches where the standard belief was that the Bible was inerrant, but I promise, they still believed that salvation came through Christ. In fact, in the US, this is a very common belief.I suggest revising the proposition like this: 'The Bible is not inerrant."And then maybe a separate proposition, 'Salvation comes through faith in Christ alone – no works required.'
@chasuk Well, the part about works is different from what I am talking about. I am talking specifically about the blatant contradictions not only between the Old and New Testaments, but even WITHIN them, which fundamentalists can never explain and dismiss with meaningless catchphrases like "just have faith" or "you just don't understand God's Word" instead of acknowledging. The whole idea of Biblical inerrancy is a new, modern, and silly belief that none of the early Church fathers agreed with.
I completely agree. You may also wish to propose "faith in Christ not Faith in the Church"
@nellyj That's a very good point and I wholeheartedly agree.
"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love." -1 John 4:7-8@deusvult do you believe you are showing love with your flippant remarks about rape?
@max Not sure which remarks you're talking about, and are you showing love for God by promoting sin and telling people that homosexuality is A-OK?
@deusvult I do not believe I am promoting sin, by definition. If you take a minute to introspect I don't see how you couldn't see what you mean - That snarky "gotcha" attitude where you throw down remarks like "feminism is just rape fetishism" is not you loving people.
@max Sure it is. While you're busy lying to them that sin will get them into Heaven, I'm telling them the truth to protect them from the evil social engineers trying to brainwash the innocent into believing in harmful lies like feminism. I have zero doubt of which of the two of us will have won God's favor on judgment day.You are like a doctor who tells their patients their diseases actually make them special and unique, rather than telling them the truth that they need to be healed. You are so afraid of hurting peoples' feelings that you won't tell them the truth they need to hear.
@deusvult Revelation 2-3 contains several messages to Churches throughout Asia Minor.One of those churches, Ephesus, is praised for standing against evil but condemned for having "abandoned the love that [they] had at first". God threatens to remove their lampstand from its place, banishing them as a Church of God.Another of those Churches, there is Pergamum. Pergamum is praised for its faith and love, but God condemns them for tolerating harmful teachings within the Church, for not standing against evil like, say, Ephesus does. However, his threat is not to remove their lampstand from its place, just that he will send other people to remove those who should not be tolerated.I am accusing you of being Ephesus. You are accusing me of being Pergamum. Maybe we are both right - I do not think I am Pergamum, I believe I am right. But of the two offenses I think the Bible makes it pretty clear which is worse - God never threatens to remove the lampstand of Pergamum.The love is the most important thing. The love is the soul of our whole deal. Every time in history that a "Christianity" has risen to power without the love of Christ at its heart it has become a horrible, violent paganism. We can quibble over differences of theology and Biblical interpretation, but if you dont love others the Bible says you are not saved."He who does not love does not know God"
To reiterate, it has nothing to do with people's feelings. I legitimately believe what I say, and I believe it is Biblical.
@max Thank you for demonstrating once again why I made that "Not An Argument" sign for you. You lie to people and teach a false gospel that sin is acceptable to God. You lie to people that feminism is anything more than Satanic social engineering. I tell them the hard truth because I care more about their soul than their feelings.
@max Also, the Bible has several different opinions on what salvation means because it's a wildly inconsistent set of documents, both between the two Testaments and within them as well.
Satanic social engineering xD Just because I disagree with you doesnt mean I am lying.Since you believe the Bible is so overwhelmingly unreliable, how do you know homosexuality is a sin?
@deusvult I also tell the hard truth. Thats why I am here calling out your lack of love for your fellow human beings. We just disagree on some points of theology.
@max I already answered this in our debate. If there is one thing in the Bible that is more consistent than anything else, it's God's disdain for homosexuals and sexual immorality in general. I don't necessarily think God sees it as worse than regular promiscuity, but it's clear as day that it brings punishment and not blessing. It's named as a sin multiple times as well, as you know full well.
@deusvult Wow, really? You think the 6 maybe half mentions of homosexuality in the Bible are THE MOST consistent point in the Bible? That's your belief? Really?
Oh look, I got you to admit that the Bible talks about homosexuality. I suspected you were being deliberately misleading by insisting "muh translation is wrong" and now I have proof.
@deusvult I guess we will need to teach you words like "maybe" and "half". Talking about homosexuality is not the same as condemning it as objectively immoral.
@deusvult Dishonestly representing my words as a dodge to a point so that you can justify oppressing an innocent class of people is a great example of you not showing the kind of love you are called to show
@max My love for the world is demonstrated by my endless war against brainless, stupid, dishonest Marxist puppets and the lies they spread to people out of fear and envy. You took the Bible and perverted it into some kind of meaningless social justice platform. You are masquerading as a "Christian preacher" while spouting off virtue-signalling nonsense that directly contradicts the will of the God you claim to represent. You are not only a false prophet, but a spineless one who throws himself and his God under the bus to make sinners feel better about their poor behavior.Jesus showed compassion to sinners and told them to stop sinning because of the consequences. You lie to them that sin is actually OK and they have nothing to fear so there's no reason to purify themselves and change their ways. See the difference?
@ajgibson0418 what day/time works for you? @deusvult , you have an opponent!
I am free most evenings
@ajgibson0418 How about this coming Thursday evening at 6pm Pacific?
@deusvult I have my tournament debate that night