How would the presence of more people who think like Hitler invalidate analogies demonstrating those people are thinking like Hitler.
@citizenthom It wouldn't. That wasn't my point. I was talking about people who just shot "Godwin's Law!" anytime you make a Nazi comparison, even when it's completely valid.
@arkle Got ya.
Do people really use that as an excuse to say they've won an argument? In my opinion people should just avoid Hitler comparisons altogether...
@fitzy45 agreed, that comparison is so overused that it almost diminishes how disgusting Hitler was, people need to just stop
Compairing someone to Hitler is not an argument. I disagree with the contention that white supremacy, the idea that whites are entitiled to more rights and are inherently superiour to all other groups, is not a popular one, nor is it escalating.
https://thinkprogress.org/the-rise-of-white-nationalism-in-america-as-explained-by-google-8d0e3e874f4http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-nationalist-movement-twitter-faster-growth-isis-islamic-state-study-a7223671.htmlhttp://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/donald-trump-white-supremacists-216620Yes, it is escalating.
BTW, that's just the U.S. I'm citing examples of in those links.It's also a problem in EUrope. See the Golden Dawn party in Greece (in a hundred years, it'll be Golden Dawn soldiers that will be the guilt-free humanoid victim of choice for FPS games, unlike today where it's either Nazis or Zombies (or Nazi Zombies)).
@arkle I don't see how any of those links show that white supremacy is increasing. Google searches are hardly a valid way to test. Also, twitter is full of bots, so that also a unrealible source of information. A better way to tellwould be admissions and growth of NGOs that expose such beliefs.
@meta_self "I don't see how any of those links show that white supremacy is increasing."Then obviously you didn't read them. FFS, the words "increasing" and "rise" were used in the headlines."Also, twitter is full of bots, so that also a unreliable source of information."Shame no one one told President Orange Foolius before he cited a tweet as his "evidence" of 3 million illegal votes cast in the 2016 general election. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-voter-fraud-conspiracy-theory-investigation-votestand-gregg-phillips-president-tweet-a7549326.html
@arkle Still, can you show me the recent growth of some NGOs spouting white supremacist views?
@meta_self I already did. It's talked about in the articles I shared. But fine, here are some more that you'll just ignore.https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2016/year-hate-and-extremismhttps://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/state-of-white-supremacyhttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/06/16/activity-among-white-supremacists-continues-surge/85931440/https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/02/17/hate-groups-rose-14-percent-last-year-the-first-increase-since-2010/?utm_term=.f9ec0532d2b6Maybe try reading them this time. if you can read. I mean, you voted for Trump so I have every right to question both your intelligence and your literacy.
@arkle USA today's article is about lone wolves who aren't a part of any group. So I'm not sure how they can measure them considering the definition is so vague that being white might be the only factor. SPL includes Christians who believe that gayness is a sin, although they don't count Muslims. SPL doesn't correlate the rising numbers with social media where anyone can make many accounts and join a group. Also, not everyone who joins is a supporter. They may just be someone watching or criticizing. Much like how people RT some tweet they disagree with. Interesting: "The hardest core sectors of the white supremacist movement—white nationalists, neo-Nazis and racist skinheads—actually declined somewhat, a reflection, ***perhaps*** (lol rly?), that hate in the mainstream had absorbed some of the hate on the fringes But there were significant increases in Klan as well as black separatist groups."It's disingenuous to label limited government supporters as hate groups.I think if we start seeing more physical groups meeting up and forming, going out in the streets and blocking traffic and harassing people, then we should worry.
@meta_self "USA today's article is about lone wolves who aren't a part of any group."Awful lot of "Lone Wolves" out there. Almost as if they aren't Lone Wolves at all. *eyeroll* Seriously, the term Lone Wolf is so overused that almost no one who uses it can be taken seriously anymore."It's disingenuous to label limited government supporters as hate groups."It's also disengeuous to call those groups "limited" government when they're okay with government interfering with people's preganancies, and forcing Christian dogma into public schools, and with cops extrajudicially executing Black people, and...You keep making excuses for White Suopremacy, then get mad that I call you a White Supremacist. You are so dumb, I actually have too many appropriate ways to call you stupid to choose from, and if I use them all this post would reach novella length."I think if we start seeing more physical groups meeting up and forming, going out in the streets and blocking traffic and harassing people, then we should worry."Yes, let's ingore the bomb threats to synagouges, and the vandalizing synagouges and mosques, etc. It's only if they get in the way of cars that they become a problem in your eyes.As for harrassment, it's already happening you half-brained imbecile. Hate crime reports are on the rise. Even when you take into account the few (but widely publicizied by the so-called Liberal media) instances that turned out to be faked.
@arkle Many of those bomb threats come from lefties. Most hate crimes are committed by blacks against Jews. Not white supremacists. The data isn't reliable. There is no growth in white supremacy in the US. If there was such a thing, how would detracters keep on living?
@meta_self "Many of those bomb threats come from lefties. "Another lie. One guy who was fired from a somewhat Left leaning publication was arrested for 8 threats. Out of more than 100. Only in your diseased brain does that count as "many.""Most hate crimes are committed by blacks against Jews. Not white supremacists."I did some Gogoling and so far the only part of that seems to be true is the "against Jews" part. The other part? Well, I have to ask what Nazi website you got that asspull from."The data isn't reliable. There is no growth in white supremacy in the US."You not liking it doesn't make it unreliable, or untrue. I've cited multiple sources to back me up. But here's a few more. Not that you'll care. Or even read them probably.http://fortune.com/2016/11/13/trump-election-racist-incidents/http://www.cipadh.org/en/new-rise-white-supremacyhttp://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/donald-trump-hate-groups-neo-nazi-white-supremacist-racism"If there was such a thing, how would detracters keep on living?"Even in context, this sentence makes no sense.
@arkle I told you, show me physical meet ups, not internet numbers.
@meta_self Funny how you only asked for that specific info after I provided stats and journalistic research. Move the goal post much? Piss off, freak. A White Supremacist could beat you over the head with a crow bar and you'd insist he wasn't reallya white supremacist because his Klan robe was half-an-inch too short. You're deluded.
@arkle I told you the problem with forum or twitter numbers.
Godwin's law was never an "effective debate point." Invoking Hitler or Nazi germany can be a valid debate point. The real problem is its overuse to apply to anybody they don't like in absurd ways, such as in this post itself.
@nellyj I agree with you here. @arkle I have to say, you do overuse the comparison to Hitler/Nazi Germany. That being said, Godwin's law shouldnt be a reason why anyone wins a debate
@ldempsy "I have to say, you do overuse the comparison to Hitler/Nazi Germany."Yeah, where do I get off comparing the guy whose supporters are literal Nazis, and who uses the pro-Nazi "America First" slogan from the 1930s, and enacts the same anti-immigrant "publishing crime lists" the Nazis did before they opened the death camps, and...
@arkle Is everyone who wants free education a Bernie supporter? No, so not everyone who voted for Trump is a Nazi. Painting people with broad brushes goes both ways. Even I have faith that there are Trump supporters out there who are still good people. I'm gay, so naturally I REALLY don't like Trump. But I don't call people (even a few friends) who voted for him Nazis because stereotyping large groups of people is something I've been a victim of my whole life so I refuse to do it to anyone else, even if I can claim a moral high ground. When they go low, we go high. So stop going low
@ldempsy "When they go low, we go high."Yea, beucase that's what we need to fight creeping fascism and whtie supremacy. Bumper sticker slogans.Sorry, but if your (and Michelle Obama's since that was her line) naive optimisim could work, we wouldn't have a KKK endorsed serial sexual predator in the White House right now."Agree to disagree" is for people who have differing opinions on what the top marginal tax rate should be. Not for people who think we should deny health care to people with breast cancer beucase they had acne as a kid (look that up; it happened) or that transgender women should be forced into men's bathrooms where they're likely to be assaulted or even killed or that the marriages of millions of Americans shoulod be invalidated because someone in power thinks two dudes kissing is gross and I could go on and on.F*** fascists, and f*** the milquetoast Liberals who think that we can just debate them into changing their minds. You're not bringing a knife to a gun fight, you're bringing words to an all-out war.
@arkle I don't pretend that not being hateful will change anything or get Trump kicked out of office. But do you know what also doesn't help? Calling people names and then expecting them to listen to you.Neither of us is going about it in a way that will make any real change so how can we take action?Contacting lawmakers and representatives, fundraising for candidates we support, what else? (serious question, instead of arguing let's develop an actual plan)
@arkle making Stupid statements like "we have a KKK endorsed serial sexual predator in the White House" shows your lack of any ability to Reason and proves you have nothing intelligent to offer especially since that person was in the WH from 1993-2001 and your candidate, HRC, openly and excitedly praised and endorsed a KKK Grand Klansman senator.
@ldempsy why would you not like Trump, by far the most pro-gay president in history? That's the reason most conservatives didn't fully endorse him.
@nellyj Donald Trump was endorsed by the KKK newspaper. people who are in the Klan now.Hillary was supported by a FORMER Klansmen who spent the last half of his ENTIRE LIFE repudiating the group.You are a liar. Delete your account.Nothing I said about Trump is a lie. He has bragged about his sexual assault. The KKK of today endorsed him.The only one incapabale of reason here is you. The one with nothing intelligent to offer is you.
@nellyj "why would you not like Trump, by far the most pro-gay president in history? That's the reason most conservatives didn't fully endorse him."This is a lie. A pathetic lie, from a pathetic man, who supports a pathetic President.
@arkle LoL I love how you dimwitted, intolerant, leftists (I repeat myself) will forgive your side's despicable criminals for anything but never forget the lies you make up about your opposition and are so wrapped up in your propeganda you lose track of reality no matter what happens or what they do. Not surprised at all.
@nellyj You call me dimwitted, yet you can't tell the difference between one man who rejected the KKK decades ago and people who are in the KKK now. Also, the only one lying about Trump is you. You're the one who called him the most pro-gay President ever, even though anyone with more than two brain cells to rub cell (i.e. anyone who didn't vote for Trump) can tell you that his actions since the Inaguration alone (let alone shit he was saying during the campaign) prove otherwise.BTW, don't bring my side's "despicable criminals" when one of your last Speakers of the House was a literal pedophile.
@nellyj let me introduce you to his pick for VP, Mike Pence. Also, conservative Supreme Court pick Neil Gorsuch. Need I say more?