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  • 2 years ago

    But transracialism is not the same as transgenderism .... who's putting them in the same boat? i think u just did ;)

    • 2 years ago

      @girthyshore Well some people use the "absurdity" of transracialism to make an argument against accepting transgenderism, because they think you can use the exact same arguments for either one. Others actually argue that "they are almost the same, they are both about being born in the wrong skin". The choice of the term "transracial" alone is the problem for me, it makes me think that Rachel Dolezal is ignorant about transgender people. I dont want to sound "outraged", i just think the term itself is the cause for the controversy. Wanting to join a different culture is a non-issue, wanting to join a race is a harder pill to swallow, it raises questions about what race even means, how much of it is biology.

      I dont know how else to respond to your reply, because you also did not really respond to my statement. Maybe we can continue if we turn this into a hypothetical just assume "some people" (not me) are putting them in the same boat and I would be against that.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo I like the way you've broken this down. The language 'transracialism" evokes a conversation of inherent, natural qualities the same way transgenderism does and the two are by nor means comparable. Transculturalism is a bit better, but I still find the link between the two to be a difficult pill to swallow.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo Rachel Dolezal is straight up offensive. The majority of differences in race are cultural/societal/familial, less so than biological (which is more on the side of transgenderism). There is no "I feel like I should have been born a black woman", and this is coming from a black woman myself. It is just cultural appropriation given a fancy new name

    • 2 years ago

      @lynnihendrix Ugh I dont like when cultures are exclusive, I could start an entire new argument about why I dont like the accuations of cultural appropriation almost always. I have also seen Rachel Dolezal been described as a prime example of white priviledge, because yada yada only a white women could feel like she could become black. I hate that kind of thinking.

      I would like the cultures that I am part of to be welcoming to everyone that wants to engage with them. I know, at the moment we still have some cultures that have a little bit of this shared history of suffering or whatever, but in my opinion it just perpetuates the entire racial worldview that we want to move past at some point, right? Our concepts of race are kind of arbitrary if you ignore the historical reasons (that dont need to affect us going forward). In an alternate time line humans would have very different ideas of races.

      Soooo I just like to think of it as cultures at this point, I want to see them lean towards being inclusive rather than exclusive based on "race" whatever that means.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo that is unrealistic. The reason cultural appropriation is upsetting is because people are taking the best parts of another culture without having to suffer the bad parts. The people of that culture have no choice. There's a way to be inclusive without cultural appropriation.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo " I could start an entire new argument about why I dont like the accuations of cultural appropriation almost always."

      Translation: "I want to wear racist stuff in public and not get called on it."

  • 2 years ago

    Transracial is a term that didn't exist until people were making excuses for the racist Rachel Dolezal. Transgender is a (albeit more recently) recognized phenomena that has been with us for centuries, even if the word didn't come into existence until the previous century.

    I wish people would stop using that jackass with the Blackface makeup who took positions that could and probably should've rightly gone to an actual person of color as a way to undermine the very real lvies and struggles of trans people.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Why cant I just engage in a culture if I enjoy it? Me not being part of the "struggling group" doesnt mean I should be excluded. Sure it would be great if I was respectful about it, but if you think that wearing mexican hats or something is strictly a sign of racism then you are a little bit retarded about this subject.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "Why cant I just engage in a culture if I enjoy it? Me not being part of the "struggling group" doesnt mean I should be excluded."

      From some things, yes it does. I mean, let me put it this way; I'm not catholic. So guess who doesn't wear a preist's collar? That would be me. Why? Beucase I'm not an asshole. And Catholics aren't even a marginalized group (for the most part anyway, I don't want to downplay how badly they've bene treated in Northern Ireland in the past.)

      " Sure it would be great if I was respectful about it, but if you think that wearing mexican hats or something is strictly a sign of racism then you are a little bit retarded about this subject."

      The R-word is an ableist slur, and you shouldn't use it. Your use of it just tells me you're an asshole whose opinion is not worth paying attention to.

      Your whole arguments boil down to "I feel entitled to things that don't belong to me because I think it looks cool." This makes you selfish at best, and racist AND selfish at worst.

      Tell me, have you ever bothered to ask the people from these marginzalized communities that ask you not to wear their cultural/religous iconography as kitsch, or do you not consider their lived experience to be on par with your own feelings?

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle "Your whole arguments boil down to "I feel entitled to things that don't belong to me because I think it looks cool." This makes you selfish at best, and racist AND selfish at worst."

      Why do you feel so strongly about keeping up divides between people. If your culture is one of isolation and circlejerk, then its a shit culture. You keep pretending like my intent is to be ignorant and disrespectful and to just have a good time, but whats so bad about having a good time. Its a two sided sword, I apparently hurt your identity by engaging in your culture, you hurt mine by excluding me... based on the color of my skin, based on where I was born. Dont you see the fucking problem with that line of thinking?

      Still, I agree that one should be respectful when it comes to people who are sensitive about things for good reasons. But I still reject the accusation of cultural appropriation.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "Why do you feel so strongly about keeping up divides between people."

      Why do you insist on misunderstanding the issue? Oh, I know why. It's because if you allow yourself to understand what the arguments against cultural appropriation actually mean, you can't win this argument.

      "If your culture is one of isolation and circlejerk, then it's a shit culture."

      You're describing "White Culture," a.k.a "Let's take all the interesting and unique bits of the various European cultures and throw them out, creating a bland oatmeal of only the most common elements of those cultures and pretend that that's what makes us better than Black people."

      "You keep pretending like my intent is to be ignorant and disrespectful and to just have a good time, but what's so bad about having a good time."

      You are being ignorant and disrespectful, and if your idea of mhaving a good time is being ignorant and disrespectful, than that makes you a bad person.

      "Its a two sided sword, I apparently hurt your identity by engaging in your culture, you hurt mine by excluding me... based on the color of my skin, based on where I was born. Don't you see the fucking problem with that line of thinking? "

      I love how the guy who is proud of the fact he refuses to see the logic in his thinking accuses me of engaging in the same behavior.

      Now let's addres the first part of your statement. ' I apparently hurt your identity by engaging in your culture, you hurt mine by excluding me"

      Once again, you demonstrate an appalling lack of understanding of the issue at hand. And you are proud of this fact. You revel in your ignorance. It would be funny if people like you weren't apparently the dominant political force in my country.

      Cultural appropriation is NOT about "engaging" in someone's culture, you idiot. As I've been saying, as POC have been saying for YEARS< but you are obviously too goddamn stupid to understand, it is about stealing the artwork, language, and faiths of non-white peoples to put on kitschy t-shirts or to use as Halloween costumes. Then racist shits like you whine and complain that you're being oppressed when those cultures say "Hey, not cool bro." Because you are racist shits.

      Enaging in culture involves reading (something I'm sure you don't do unless it's the Bible or an Ann Coulter book) about cultures other than your own. Talking to people who grew up in that culture. Maybe even travelling places. It does NOT mean wearing a warbonnet from one Native American tribe in a fashion show, calling it Cherokee even though it isn't, and charging ridiculous amounts of money for knock-offs of it in an Baercrobmie & Fitch catalogue! That is racist, and that is the practice you are vociferously defending. Erego, you are a f***ing racist. Period, end of story.

      "Still, I agree that one should be respectful when it comes to people who are sensitive about things for good reasons. "

      If that we were true we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      "But I still reject the accusation of cultural appropriation."

      Beucase you are a bigot and should delete your account.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Its actually hard to read your comment because of how outraged and insulting you are. Such a condescending perspective on everything, so much need for racial identity that the white man cant take away. Your worldview.... Its actually sad. Seriously. If what I wrote made you scream "BIGOT! DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT!". You are the worst kind of person one can meet in this kind of discussion. What the fuck are you even doing on this website if you cant make your point without raging.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "Its actually hard to read your comment because of how outraged and insulting you are. Such a condescending perspective on everything, so much need for racial identity that the white man cant take away. "

      Spoken like a true racist. Which is what you are. Don't say you aren't. You keep making exucses to defend a racist practice. Erego, you are racist.

      "Your worldview.... Its actually sad"

      Your defense of racism is what's really sad. And your pathetic lies that you do it out of so me form of repsect for other cultures? The only people you are fooling are other white supremacists and yourself.

      "Seriously. If what I wrote made you scream "BIGOT! DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT!". You are the worst kind of person one can meet in this kind of discussion."

      No, that would be you. You are the worst. Beucase you are defending a racist pracitce. Which makes you a racist. I don't know why I have to keep pointing out the obvious so much. I take it you were dropped on your head a lot as a child?

      "What the fuck are you even doing on this website if you cant make your point without raging."

      What can I say, racists make me really angry. They'd make you angry too if you weren't one of them.

      Oh, BTW? I'm not a POC. I'm what you would call whuite (half-Irish/half-German). But you are so racist you can;t imagine that any white person would disagree with you, and that only POC would see your theft and mockery of their culture for the sake of kitsch t-shirts and tats as offensive.

      Beucase you a raicst. Delete your account. We have too Nazi ass punks like you on this site as is.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle Actually you are the one that puts a great amount of value in racial identity instead of seeing it as culture. You are so insecure about your identity that you see even a discussion about the topic as an attack against you as an individual. You call someone racist who spent a good amount of his lifetime fighting against racism and discrimination. I have not a clue about what gave you the impression of me being a national socialist. Everything I said is the complete opposite of identitarian mindsets.

      You are one of the people that americans like to call crazy leftist or social justice warriors, you actually give social justice advocates a hard time when it comes to actual progress.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "Actually you are the one that puts a great amount of value in racial identity instead of seeing it as culture. "

      Still being racist AF I see. Can't say I'm shocked.

      "You are so insecure about your identity that you see even a discussion about the topic as an attack against you as an individual."

      No, just correctly pointing out that you are defending a racist practice. Your attempts at using pseudo-psychology to mask your own white racist entitlement won't work. Largely beucase it never works when all the other defenders of the racist practice of cultural appropriation use pretty much the same tactics. And every single one of them thinks they're the first to try that argument on me, just like I'm sure you think so here. You think you're clever, but you're just another parrot for white supremacist ideas. Bigot wanna cracker? Cracker in that instance referring to the actual snack of course.

      "You call someone racist who spent a good amount of his lifetime fighting against racism and discrimination."

      And I would know that how exactly? Assuming you aren't lying, our entire interaction on this website has been you making exucse for why a racist practice isn't racist. If you were in my shoes, and you saw someone defending a racist practice, wouldn't you call them racist? Granted, I am asking you to use your brain and empathy, two things I'm confident you lack, but at try pretending.

      "I have not a clue about what gave you the impression of me being a national socialist."

      Well, using the same tired excuses to defend the racist practice of cultural appropriation for one.

      "Everything I said is the complete opposite of identitarian mindsets. "

      No, everything you said basically boils down to "F*** what POC want, if I think something of cultural signifgance to them looks cool on a t-shirt, I'm taking without even asking if that might be offensive. Becuase my point of view is the only one that matters."

      "You are one of the people that americans like to call crazy leftist or social justice warriors, you actually give social justice advocates a hard time when it comes to actual progress."

      And *no one* who use the term SJW unironically has *ever* had much of value to say, yet you side with them while defending a racist practice, which is itself an impedement to actual progress, so we know you're a liar with that last part. You don't want progress. Or at the very least, you don't want social justice progress that comes at the expense of making you superficially inconvenienced. Because if we learned anything from the thread about protests and traffic on this site, it's that White supremacists will always value their convenience over non-white's people lives, histories, and opinions.

      Oh, and a lot of those people who use the term SJW unironically are also anti-Semitic (sometimes calling people SJeWs and tweeting pictures of ovens to Jewish reporters on Twitter and repackagin old Nazi cartoons to attack YouTubers they don't like, etc.).

      But sure, say I'm not being fair in calling you a Nazi. You just talk like one of them. After all, if it quacks like a duck, it's probably an emu so shut up libtard!

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle The difference between you and me is that you think cosplaying as a character from another race and putting on colored makeup is forever going to be an insensitive thing. From my point of view there will be a tipping point when people are going to be way way less sensitive about the subject, and at that point still impeding on the white kids freedom to cosplay as django from django unchained, that would be a shitty thing to do. At the moment? Well blacks in america still have a hard time on average. But at some point in the future? People will hopefully not give a fuck. Its a fucking custome, let the kid have his fun with roleplaying. If at that point you will shame the kid and the parents then i will call you a crazy person. You would be the one that perpetuates racial worldviews, you would be the one to remind people of things that they shouldnt care about, you are the one impeding on freedoms.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "The difference between you and me is that you think cosplaying as a character from another race and putting on colored makeup is forever going to be an insensitive thing."

      Becuase it is, you racist moron. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dont-wear-blackface-halloween_us_5633b4dde4b06317991244ac

      And no, cosplaying is not racist. But you are not talking about cosplaying. You are a raicst piece of shit trying to pass off blackface (or yellowface, or redface, etc. depending on the situation) as cosplay. As Andre Meadows put it, you can put on the outfit of a Black fictional charatcer (which BTW is not the same as a culture, but I guess that distinction is lost on racist morons like you), but leave the shoe polish at home. Pretty much everyone you want to get it will get it.

      Watch the whole video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ2niVRCV1w Andre puts it in pretty simple terms even a putz like you should be able to grasp. In theory anyway.

      "From my point of view there will be a tipping point when people are going to be way way less sensitive about the subject, "

      POC aren't "too senstive." They're just tired of taking shit from people like you. You're the idiot who harrasses an animal over and over again, then acts shocked when they bite. And then you blame the animal for it as if all the douchebaggery you'd been engaging in up to the point of the bite never happened.

      "and at that point still impeding on the white kids freedom to cosplay as django from django unchained, that would be a shitty thing to do."

      IF the whtie kid puts on blackface, that does make him racist, and you a racist for defneding it. He can do the outfit, sure, but again, BLACKFACE IS RACIST YOU COLLOSAL MORON!

      "At the moment? Well blacks in america still have a hard time on average."

      Understatement of the year.

      "But at some point in the future? People will hopefully not give a fuck. Its a fucking custome, let the kid have his fun with roleplaying."

      Racism is not a costume. And also, stop conflating fictional chracters with people's real life cultures. That's just more racist BS. Which of ocurse mena,s you guessed it, you are a racist. And now, just feeling like you aren't doesn't mena you aren't. I am judging you by your words and actuions,. And your words and actions are being used to defend racist practices. Which makes you a racist. You may not use the N-word in public or attend cross burnings, but that doesn't automatically make you the good guy here.

      "If at that point you will shame the kid and the parents then i will call you a crazy person."

      I will never not shame racists. Because racism is shameful. I may be "crazy," whatever you think that word means, but at least I'm not a white supremacist piece of shit like you.

      "You would be the one that perpetuates racial worldviews, you would be the one to remind people of things that they shouldnt care about, you are the one impeding on freedoms."

      These words ring hollow coming from a man expending so many words to defend a racist practice. What you seek isn't freedom. It's entitlement. You think that white people should be allowed to take things that don't belong to them and use them as costumes and for kitsch. And then you whine when the peiople you are stelaing from balk at the idea. You are shit. Trash. Me acknoweldging that you are a human being like I am is the most amount of kindness you deserve from me, nothing more.

    • 2 years ago

      @arkle I am really not a white supremacist or ethnonationalist, dont worry. I am very much a globalist mutliculturlist humanitarian.

      "You think that white people should be allowed to take things that don't belong to them and use them as costumes and for kitsch."

      No why are you constantly on about white people. I want people from other places be able to engage with the cultures of my country, if people somewhere else want to have Oktoberfests and wear Lederhosen then I really dont mind. Nothing is lost because of it. But every bit of enjoyment and coming together is gained.

      Anyways, I recommend tuning the racist accusation setting down a notch. If you cant discuss things calmy then why are you on a discussion website? Honestly I dont understand how you havent gotten a warning or a ban for this kind of behavior yet.

    • 2 years ago

      @onekonzo "I am really not a white supremacist or ethnonationalist, dont worry. I am very much a globalist mutliculturlist humanitarian. "

      Which is why you are defending a racist practice. Beucase you are totally not racist. Also, the Nazis loved Jews, Andrew Jackson had great respect for Native Americans, and Marc Lépine was a feminist.

      "No why are you constantly on about white people. I want people from other places be able to engage with the cultures of my country, if people somewhere else want to have Oktoberfests and wear Lederhosen then I really dont mind. "

      Engaging is fine. What you are defending is not engaging, it is theft, amnd racism. Blackface is not okay! Wearing people's religous garb as a Halloween costume is not oaky. It is, at best, if one wants to be generous, merely dickish.

      "Nothing is lost because of it. But every bit of enjoyment and coming together is gained. "

      See, if you bothered reading up on this subject from epople who aren't racists who agree with your racist view that is in defense of a racist practice... But thatw ould require actually considering the views of people who aren't white. Which I'm pretty sure is beyond your intellectual capacity.

      But I'm going to make what is probably a vein attempt to get through that thick, racist skull of yours. Here's an actual POC, in this case a NAtive American, explaining why wearing their culturla garb as a Halloween costume is racist. http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-shame/an-open-letter-to-non-natives-in-headdresses/

      If you are as non-racist as you claim you are, that piece will have an effect on you. If you are exactly as racist as I think you are, it will have no impact whatsoever and you will keep making the same arguments in defnese of cultural appropriation.

      "Anyways, I recommend tuning the racist accusation setting down a notch."

      Stop defending a racist practice and I'll consider it.

      "If you cant discuss things calmy then why are you on a discussion website?"

      Why should I be clam with the willfully ignorant? People like you are a literal threat to democracy. And if you think I'm exagerating there, keep in mind I have one of the most respected living former Supreme Court Justices of the United States on my side on that fact. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/justice-souters-old-warning-finds-new-life-election/

      "Honestly I dont understand how you havent gotten a warning or a ban for this kind of behavior yet."

      Dude, if the guy who argues that "it doesn't count as rape if you only use your finger" can't get banned (he only appears to have stopped coming around lately), nothing I would ever even think of doing will. Excpet saying the F-word apparently, but some people have really weird ideas about swearing. *shrug*