Says the man who voted for the most hateful and vindictive Presidential candidate since George Wallace.Your words ring hollow, meta_self. Just saying you are reasonable does not make you reasonable. That's not how it works.
@arkle So why is it nessacry for them (you) to be so hateful and vindictive?Does it help their (your) argument in any way?
@meta_self "So why is it nessacry for them (you) to be so hateful and vindictive?"If you had any self-awareness at all, you wouldn't need to ask me that question. Only an idiot like you would look at the most deplorable people on earth, then look a tthe people who rightly get angry at those deplorables, and think "The problem is with the angry ones."The abused have every right to hate their abusers. What you want is for the marginalized to suffer quietly so you don't have to hear them. You value your comfort over their livelihoods. You are a bad person. Period."Does it help their (your) argument in any way?"Being nice to bad people doesn't make them less bad. Or are you honestly so detached from reality that you think we could've hugged our way out of WWII? Don't get me wrong, that would've been nice. I'd like to see humanity get there someday. But what you suggest isn't "everyone getting along." You just don't want any social justice progress to be made in any way that makes you mildly uncomfortable.
@arkle So they (you) must be hateful and vindictive because it is okay to hate one's (your) abuser. Wow... How do you define abuse? It's pretty uncommon. So if it doesn't help your argument, then why do it during discourse?
@meta_self "So they (you) must be hateful and vindictive because it is okay to hate one's (your) abuser. Wow... How do you define abuse? It's pretty uncommon. "Uncommon? Really? You are just incapable of not lying, aren't you? Delte your account already, you offer nothing of value to this site. Or to the world in general. Delete your account. Then kill yourself. One less racist asshole in the world is always a good thing.
@arkle How do you define abuse then?So if it doesn't help your argument, then why do it during discourse?
@meta_self "How do you define abuse then?"Murdering unarmed Black people and getting away with it. That's abusing a whole community. So is profiling transwomen as sex workers just for being outside. And taking away their rights to use public restrooms. That's abuse of a community too.Removing regulations that help clean up pollution is abuse of the enivronment; of the air and water we need to survive.I could go on and on really, but I'm talking about real human beings. Not made up ones like the "people who died because of protests blocking traffic" that you had to make up beucase it's never happened ever but you need it to be true so you don't have to admit you're just an asshole."So if it doesn't help your argument, then why do it during discourse?"Because some people are so lacking in empathy, people such as yourself, that they can't be reasoned with. They can only be fought.
@arkle What does any of that have to do with specific debates on different topics?Then why join a debate community just to fight others?
@meta_self "Then why join a debate community just to fight others?"This debate community was a lot more fun before people like you came along. We had Right Wingers, sure, but none quite as vile and pathologically dishonest as you.
@arkle It defeats the purpose of a debate community to fight those in the community with whom you disagree with. I am not fighting anyone.
@meta_self "I am not fighting anyone."Right. You just lie and act like your lies are reason and logic. Piss off.
ok a bit of help here.. can you please define Neo-Progressives???
@gigi I looked up the term. It's a sub-genre of rock music.
@arkle hahaha I know the definition relevant to music but I assume this is not what @meta_self means?
@gigi No, but he's a proven liar and a probable sociopath. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything he says. The best options are to either mock him or ignore him.
@arkle We wouldn't have started QallOut if we were not open to different opinions and people. Even though I disagree with @meta_self in most of the social/ political topics I'm still interested in hearing his logic and arguments. I don't want to believe that half the population of US is evil, we just have to reach out and listen. I'm confident that we can find some common ground or agree to disagree.
@gigi "We wouldn't have started QallOut if we were not open to different opinions and people."Saying that the cold-bloded murder of a child by a police officer who video evidence proves was lying when he said he had time to tell the child to put his hands up, twice, is not an opinion. Treating like it is is an insult to the victim. And that's just one example of Meta's history of racism on this site."Even though I disagree with @meta_self in most of the social/ political topics I'm still interested in hearing his logic and arguments."If he had any logic and arguments beyond "crap I've been hearing from guys with Swastikas in their avatars on Twitter since 2014" I'm sure it would be very interesting."I don't want to believe that half the population of US is evil, we just have to reach out and listen."Maybe not half, but certainly upwards of 30%."I'm confident that we can find some common ground or agree to disagree."I don't "agree to disagree" on basic human rights. People like Meta, at least in my country, are openly supproting people and policies that seek to strip those things away from the sick, people of color, women (trans and cis), gay couples, children, the elderly, and basically anyone else who isn't of immediate use and financial gain to the top 1% of the top 1%.Some people are just NOT worth compromising with, and trying to compromise with them makes one as complicit in their toxic ideology as the true beleivers themselves. Would you suggest we "agree to disagree" with salve owners? Holocause deniers? Child murderers?This notion that EVERYTHING must be treated as a valid topic for debate, that all ideas belong on the table, is how you end with brutal fascist regimes.I'm sorry, but it's a simple, cold hard fact. Some opinions are just plain wrong, and to treat them as valid is to be nothing less than guilty of throwing already marginalized people under the bus for the sake of feeling good about yourself. I will never compromise with people like Meta_Self. Because he and his toxic, dangerous ideology do not deserve anything less than utter contempt. People like him should not be coddled, they should be fought; verbally whenever possible, physically if neccesary.
@gigi Neo-progressives are modern day progressives who believe that the current structure is bigoted and needs to be radically changed economically and ethically.By the way, why isn't there any expectation of decency and civility on this site? That is counterproductive to rational discussion.
@meta_self "Neo-progressives are modern day progressives who believe that the current structure is bigoted and needs to be radically changed economically and ethically."In other words, people who are smart."By the way, why isn't there any expectation of decency and civility on this site?"Asks the man who voted for a sexual predator, lied to exucse the murder of a child, and stands up for monuments to white supremacist murderers.Apparently in Meta_Self land the only thing you need to do to be a "Good person" is not swear. Gues that means if anyone can prove Hitler never dropped an F bomb, that menas Meta_self will have to say that Hitler is a better man than Samuel L. Jackson."That is counterproductive to rational discussion."So is lying, but that hasn't stopped you so far.
@arkle So talking about grabbing pussy from a woman who lets you is sexual assult now.
@meta_self "So talking about grabbing pussy from a woman who lets you is sexual assult now."Your only proof the women in question "wanted it" is a proven liar's word, said AFTER he sauid he "just grabs" and "starts kissing" women without permission, WHICH IS ASSAULT!Rapists often say their vicitms wanted it. Nice to know that you are on the side of rapists. I'm sure Mr. Drumpf, Bill Cosby, those two Stubenville high school footbnall players, etc. apprecaite your support.
@arkle What woman in question. Who is it excatly? Seems like a hypothetical person.
@meta_self "What woman in question. Who is it excatly?"You'd have to ask Rapey McTinyhands. Maybe it was Nancy O'Dell, the married woman he "moved on like a bitch." Or maybe it was some other woman he "grabbed by the pussy." Or as your pro-rape ass probably puts it, foreplay."Seems like a hypothetical person."If that's the case, you probably suddenly care about their well-being, since you have shown time and again that you value people that may exist at some future point hypothetically over people alive and breathing now.
@arkle Well, you act like you're so sure.
@meta_self "Well, you act like you're so sure."Yeah, that's absiolutely fair. How dare I assume a guy who bragged about sexual assault committed sexual assault. And how dare I suggest the guy who uses language that people who commit sexual assaults use to try and justify their actions possibly be someone who has committed sexual assault and wants to jkustify their actions. How dare I go by the evidence in front of me. I should've just made it all up, like alll thos people who "died" becuase of protests that you pulled out of your ass so hard I'm surprised you haven't died from rectal blood loss.
@arkle I never did any of that.
@meta_self Thanks! So I guess these are all the Trump voters? i.e. the vast amount of people who were fed up with the status quo and wanted something radically different regardless of what this isI hope you checked Yazan's post on FB group? You can flag comments and debates and of course we are adults hence if you cannot communicate with certain individuals you can always stop engaging (the blocking feature is coming!) :-) Best way to settle your differences with @arkle is a H2H debate where each of you will have a proper chance to support his views and listen to each other as well as call out each other bs... Make it happen and who knows who might actually find some common ground....
@gigi No, these are people on the far left like @arkle. I don't see anyone on the right banging drums and blowing whisteles when people are just trying to have a discussion.
@meta_self I was half joking.. cause if we follow your definition, it is actually the Trump administration that seems to change radically the traditional way US is being run. If this is good or bad, this is a different question but the unconventional way they govern is a fact. As of the noise you are referring to, I guess this is normal when you are the opposition? When Democrats were in power, I'm pretty sure the opposition was making equal amount of noise...
@gigi Not at all. Trump movement is more like a "back to basics" movement, not a radical change in the face of the constitution. No, I never see the right blow whistles or bang drums in lieu of discussion.
@meta_self Can you please define exactly what you mean by basics and point out when in history of the US there was something similar? So I guess making a huge deal about a President certificate is not relevant (just one example of when opposition makes noise)?
@gigi "Make America Great AGAIN" does that give you a clue? It's a restorative movement that wants to bring back what was already here, not some new radical vision of the US under the NWO.DO you mean Obama's birth certificate? It's common to question someone's background who is on their way to become president. Ted Cruz went through the same thing. Plus the certificate Obama released is a forgery. Open it up in Adobe and you could separate it into layers. All scanned images form one layer not several- that is indicative of forgery.
@meta_self I hope you don'd disappoint me...My questions were very specific so I hope you can respond rather than divert the conversation.What do you mean "basics" and example in history that this was true - I assume if they are trying to restore something ("Great" is not really specific..) you can point out what this is and when in history it happenedThe certificate thing was not to discuss if the noise was right or wrong but to understand that both sides will come up with things to create noise. The legitimacy of the noise is another debate...I'll stop here but feel free to support your arguments with evidence if you want to
@gigi I never dissapoint! "Again" was the key word, not "Great". I don't see how I'm disregarding your question. You're a foreigner so I understand if you're unfamiliar. Back decades ago the US was on top of trade, innovation, and jobs. We lost that due to neo-liberal policies and rampant globalisialtion. Trump wants to turn the country back economically (not socially) to a time where we were on top of our game so to speak, and a leader in world economics, not just an effect of it.
I guess it's a bit unfair to say that all SJW's have no legit reason to be the way they are. I wouldn't say that they all do have legit reasons, but I would imagine that a significant portion of neo-progressives do.
@jb043 Nobody who uses the term SJW unironically as a pejorative has anything of value to say. http://www.anidealforliving.com/did-it-ever-mean-anything-besides-abuse-a-look-at-the-history-of-the-term-sjw/
@jb043 How is it productive to act in such a way?
@meta_self I never said it was productive? I just said sometimes they have a legit reason to be the way they are. Whether that's productive or not is an entirely new question
@jb043 I think it's the same question. Why else would they do it? Only children lose themselves in their emotions while conducting themselves with others.
@meta_self no, it's really not. There is a very, very clear difference between someone having a legitimate reason to do something (or not having a legit reason), and whether or not doing that thing is productive. I said maybe some people have a legit reason, maybe some don't. It's not appropriate to brush every member of a group of a people with the same stroke. Example? I am a social justice warrior, I advocate for those issues. But does that mean I run around spewing forth hate? No. Why? Because not every sjw is the same. Just like not all who are on the right wing are racist and sexist. Whether or not it is productive is another question. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. That's not relevant to this. Because the question is whether they have a legit reason or not.
@jb043 What else would make it legitimate besides it being productive for discourse- the only way to influence minds in a free society?
@meta_self idk maybe some of the things they've experienced in the past. Maybe some of the things that have happened to them. I can't speak on behalf of all of them. I just don't think it's fair to say that they're all the same. And not being productive doesn't delegitimise things.
@jb043 Again, if there's a point to discourse, then why would it be okay to act in such a hateful and aggressive way?
There are feminists, who want men and women to be equal. There are misandrists, who want women to be superior to men. There are SJWs, who fall across the entire spectrum. There are extremists on both sides.
@jeffery95014 But I don't see the same level of hate during dicourse from the far right.
@jeffery95014 "There are extremists on both sides."I hear this argument alot, but the examples anti-SJs give of progressive extremism are either not acts commited by progressives at all, or aren't extreme in anyway. I've seen people like you try to claim letting trans people change the gender on their driver's liscenes as "extreme."
@meta_self "But I don't see the same level of hate during dicourse from the far right."You are blind then. That or you don't know what real hate looks like. Or you're just a liar. Or some combination of all three.
@arkle Where are the right wingers blowing whistles and banging drums when others are trying to have a dialogue with them?
@meta_self "Where are the right wingers blowing whistles and banging drums when others are trying to have a dialogue with them?"Um, everywhere. I guess you've never been on Twitter. Or Facebook. Or 4chan. Or Reddit.Here are some other examples of hatred from the Right Wing.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#United_Stateshttps://www.bustle.com/p/portlands-hate-crime-is-a-consequence-of-violent-right-wing-protests-60793https://www.adl.org/education/resources/reports/dark-constant-rage-25-years-of-right-wing-terrorism-in-united-statesWant more? I can find more.
@arkle None of this is relevant. I'm talking about during discourse, either online or during rallies. There are violent nutjobs each extreme poles.
@meta_self maybe because you choose not to? The right is incredibly hateful, probably more so than the far left. It's just that the left is more outgoing and louder
@jb043 I don't call banging on drums, blowing whistles, and accusing everyone else of bigotry is outgoing. They are loud and annoying though. Many on the left say the right is evil. but many on the right just look at the left as misguided.
@meta_self well it is outgoing because they're not keeping it internal. They're being loud and vocal about it = outgoing. No no. Nope. No. Maybe some people on the right say the left is simply misguided. But I would suggest that saying people are misguided and showing incredible hatred and vilification are two very different things and the sad part is there's more of the latter from the right wing
@jb043 Outgoing means friendly. You know that. Where does anyone or group on the right (not some lone loon) advocate for violence like antifa and BAMN do?
@meta_self you don't need to be violent to be hateful and vindictive. I have no examples of when the right advocated for violence (although I'm sure it happened). But I don't need them, the right is generally just as, if not more, hateful than sjws
@jb043 Why do you believe things about the world without evidence?
@meta_self 17. May 28, 2016 in San Diego, California. Trump supporters pepper-sprayed protesters outside a rally.14. April 23, 2016, in Bridgeport, Connecticut. A protester was pulled away in a chokehold by a police officer after reportedly trying to run back into a Trump rally he was being escorted out of.13. April 11, 2016, in Albany, New York. A protester at a rally was shoved in the face twice by a Trump supporter12. March 19, 2016, in Tucson, Arizona. A protester at a Trump rally was sucker-punched and kicked by a 32-year-old man10. March 9, 2016, in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A black protester being escorted out of a Trump rally was sucker-punched by a white bystande6. Dec. 14, 2015, in Las Vegas. Individuals at a Trump rally yelled "Sieg Heil" and "light the motherfucker on fire" toward a black protester3. Nov. 21, 2015, in Birmingham, Alabama. A black protester at a Trump rally was punched, kickedIs that enough evidence for you?
@jb043 Yeah, that was all in response to the violent approach of Antifa. You know that. I can list an earlier and more intensive list of antifa/anti-trump attacking innocent men, women, and even some children.
@meta_self I do know that, but they weren't there being violent - those examples are violent responses to "non-violent" acts and times when the right very clearly advocated for unnecessary violence BUT anyway, let's go back a few steps. Even if the right wasn't violent (bc you know that they are) they're still incredibly hateful and vindictive. You can't deny that
@jb043 They aren't violent in mass or in collective ideology. The left is with groups like BAMN and Antifa.
@meta_self "I don't call banging on drums, blowing whistles, and accusing everyone else of bigotry is outgoing."I love how you show how truly dumb you are by acting as though beating drums and whistling and accuraltey pointing out that bigots are bigoted is somehow "as bad" as trying to pass laws to make it okay to run over protestors with your car.
@meta_self Antifa only attacks fascists. And as far as I know, they have never attacked children.Now, if you want to talk about harming children, let's talk about all the kid who will die if Trumpcare passes.Oh, wait, most of those kids are poor, so you probably think they deserve it. Never mind.
@arkle Not your thread. Stop trolling me. And stop thinking just because they're going loose the plan now (like myself) doesn't mean they won't find another plan and provider.
@meta_self "And stop thinking just because they loose the plan now (like myself) doesn't mean they won't find another plan and provider."Google the term "preexisiting conditions." Then hit yourself in the face with your keyboard.
@arkle Like the market won't accommodate that, as if someone won't want to make money and provide a service they need.
@meta_self "Like the market won't accommodate that, as if someone won't want to make money and provide a service they need."Oh, they'll make money all right. As much as they. But they won't provide the service. They'll look for any excuse they can to avoid paying out. Because For Profit helathcare is immoral, and I sincerely beelive that anyone who supports it is a monster who gets off on the idea of people they don't like suffering all some rich f*** who probably "earned" his wealth by doing the hard work of being born to an even richer f*** can get a tax cut when they already don't pay the taxes they owe to begin with.
@arkle Of course they will provide the service. Free healthcare is where innovation comes from. New medicines and tech come from the US not Canada or Germany. You have a facile and distorted view of capitalism. At least under communism, you would eat less. No wonder you like it so much.
@meta_self @arkle when's the h2h?
@julian He admitted he wouldn't say half of that shit he spews in my face.
@meta_self "But I don't see the same level of hate during discourse from the far right."Cool. Let's look at that the victims of white supremacists. After all, actions speak louder than words. (Although their words are also quite loud. Have you seen some of the alt-right websites out there?)James Byrd Jr. was dragged to death by white supremacists. They tied him to a truck and drove off. He was alive until his right arm and head were severed when he hit a culvert. The police found 81 places that were littered with Byrd's remains. His body was dumped in front of a local church.Jeremy Christian fatally stabbed two men, Ricky John Best and Taliesin Myrddin Namkai Meche, after they defended a Muslim woman on a train. 2nd Lt. Wilbur Collins III was fatally stabbed by a suspect who belongs to the Alt-Reich Facebook group.The past two were happened in the same week. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
@andrewzlee That isn't from discourse.Those are lone nuts and there's plenty of those on both sides of the political spectrum.
@meta_self I could also argue that the extremely progressive SJWs are "lone nuts," but I've visited many forums and I've never seen them say things like "kill all the white people." Meanwhile, "Kill all blacks" is something that I can find quite easily on alt-right forums.
@andrewzlee That rhetoric is widely used, especially on this site by some users. These are not isolated acts, but rather thoughts generated by a community of like minded individuals.
@meta_self Sorry, could you be more specific? I'm not sure what "isolated acts" or "rhetoric" you're talking about. Are you saying that "kill all whites" is something that is widely said on this site?
@andrewzlee That rehtoric is used widely by far lefts. There aren't many right wingers telling anyone to punch a SJW.
This is just stupid. Here's @meta_self's logic."I'm going to vote for Trump, an extremely hateful and vindictive president whose behavior would literally not be tolerated at schools.""Now I'm going to say that the left has no reason to be hateful, even after the president I supported has said to fight fire with fire."
@andrewzlee The first claim is invalid. He has only been mean to those who attack him first.