Who's watching live - identify yourself! :p
@yaz checking it out and taking notes
@behind_the_veil_of_ignorance you're up next
@yaz waiting to jump on in you still have time when you're done
So.. RJs review the whole debate and take notes of the highlights that then the deliver via video. Most of the them have a lot of debating experience, participated in competitions and judged debates :-). We think video is a great way to engage and actually meet the RJs. Great point about 4 minutes not being enough, hence we increased in 7 minutes which is probably enough to deliver the core feedback. RJs then can provide additional clarification via text and further engage with the debaters.Don't forget that RJs are also part of the community so outside of the tournament they can debate and provide their personal opinions etc!
@gigi I appreciate the explanation! I'm one of those people that can get what they want to say out in written form much easier than verbally. Also, thinking about this now, another argument for a written judgement vs the verbal would be that I believe people would rather be able to read a review. We are in such a fast paced world we don't like to wait. I want to be able to quickly move from one judge to another and compare the thoughts of each judge. That is extremely difficult if each judge averages 5 minutes a review. A written review can be quickly skimmed and key points found. One of our local news channels rarely puts out the written article, they always post the video. This always aggravates me because I can read MUCH faster than they can talk.Gigi, I would love your thoughts on secret or maybe public discussions of a debate before a decision in made.
@jabberjaw Hey, to be honest with you I'm one of these people who also prefers text for the same reasons :-) Yazan on the other hand is the opposite hahah. So I think it depends on the person!From a business perspective, video is where the world is going and this is one of our main differentiating factors compared to other online forums. More importantly, we believe that video increases engagement as well as accountability of users. I still love your suggestion and as we enhance the product to become more focused on analysis of debates, we will try to find ways to combine both. I'll be waiting for your feedback as we roll out new features!In terms of a post-debate discussion on how the debate went and performance of debaters I think it's an excellent idea which will again fit nicely as we roll-out new features. However, for competitive debates where the judges make a decision I feel like independent review is more important to avoid influencing each other. Happy to hear the community's thoughts on that!
@yaz I really like the tally agree! @jabberjaw set of rules is a great suggestion also!
@yaz I like the social debate idea that it can be less formal also.
Arguments is definitely one element of a good debate but don't forget quality over quantity! Check out below what are the core elements of official debate assessment:1. Argumentation2. Refutation3. Structure 4. Presentation @benmouse42 @sarahmiller @ninadabit please chip in with your suggestions!
@gigi as Joel has stated, you all are underappreciated and I want to say thank you for making this a much better forum for debates and discussion. And I highly appreciate the insight! Once I get much better are reviews I may ask to get your review of my review :-)
@jabberjaw Thank you for your encouraging words and very glad to have you! Our RJs are probably much better than me on the reviews!! :-)
@gigi This was a really interesting conversation! Personally, I really like the idea of judges being able to upload their notes as a second check if that's something the community would be in favor of. At least in the debate experience I've had in more recent years with 4 teams of 2 in one room having to earn a ranked level, judge notes are usually clear in pointing to the places where an argument is still standing or missed the mark in outweighing an opponent's. As a debater, I've always been offered the ability to view those notes to see how a judge saw the debate. I think criteria or specific things to look at could be an interesting concept as a judge. That being said, I think that becomes difficult when QallOut debates don't have a strong structural component for the debate style itself. It's very difficult to quantify what weight any argument holds without an official structure to base this on. But I imagine that other judges along with myself are looking at the core elements of debate as you mention above and assessing how each debater did in comparison with the other. As far as judge discussion, I honestly welcome this. I currently debate in a style that functions off consensus judging between 3 judges in preliminary and up to 5 in elimination rounds. It works with a chair leading the discussion and everyone coming up with a preliminary decision before discussing. Often it changes minds and can create a clear judgment for debaters because it requires the judge to essentially debate and justify why their view of the debate is correct and leads to more critical thought. When judges can't come to an agreement, a vote is taken at a certain time point in the discussion. This could be more logistically difficult for a platform like QallOut but nonetheless is an interesting option with good and bad parts for the debate community.
@ninadabit Excellent points, thanks so much! You are spot on that logistical challenges and the whole convenience element needs to be balanced here since that's the whole point of having an online platform. Still, I think there is a lot of room for improvement and learnings from official competitive debating
thanks for the awesome suggestions @jabberjaw !
@gigi Absolutely, Thank you Gigi!
When I get some more time, I'm going to read these comments and reply. I do appreciate the kind comments! Yaz, you have created a fantastic community, As iv stated, I can not wait to see how far your group goes!
@yaz @gigi I would like to suggest I believe a way for debaters to share notes and flow charts from the debate would be helpful also.
@julian yes that's a great idea, will probably come as part of the optimized experience we discussed. Thanks for the feedback!
@julian just some clarification, in what capacity do you mean sharing notes and flow charts? Is this to the audience, or the judges or your opponent? And what benefit do you think will come from that? (Not trying to tear you down I'm just v curious to see what you're getting at)
@jb043 I think you mean that in competitive debating, assessment should only be based on the actual performance rather than anything else right? If yes, good point..But maybe for non-competitive debates, it could help audience engage and learn?
@gigi in competitive debating the notes have no place, because the decision should be based purely in what gets said during the debateAs for non-competitive, I don't see the issue with showing notes and such - I'm just not quite sure I understand what the audience could learn from that, that they didn't learn from the debate (also my notes are usually super messy and even I have trouble understand them sometimes) I'm open to discussion about it though
@jb043 Agree with you 100% about competitive debating!As of the non-competitive, I'm thinking using tech to quickly and easily input your top arguments, sources or something so that if someone doesn;t have the time to watch the full debate, can review the highlights of your prep. But you are right that this should not come at the expense of debaters doing extra work, hence I'm thinking some cool tech product feature but need some advice for the product experts :-)
@jb043 I think it would be great for both the audience and judges if they were a way to upload notes and flow charts as a PDF or jpg. It provides a glimpse of the debaters mind and makes use of all of the time that goes into a debate.
@jb043 I agree it's about oral presentation and communication. I think having a score card they way Yaz described is the best answer. This feature would add clarity.
@jb043 If the audience and judges are interested they can learn more or see into the debaters mind. If one debater says they moved their points forward but the other debater strayed off topic to divert and confuse a false conclusion it would be very helpful. That's just one example. And after they see what my hand writing looks like it probably won't do much good either! Doesn't have to be mandatory.
@jabberjaw & @yaz I will make comments as I watch the video1. Jabber- every debate I've had that was judged by the resident judges was done unbiased of their personal feelings about the debate. The community votes ARE sometimes biased. But that's the difference between the judges and the community.2. I would not read the judges reviews are any debaters notes ever, but that's just me. Often I'm watching a debate on my phone while I'm doing something or driving in my car. That's the same with the judges reviews, I love that it's a video that requires them to publically justify their voting. The video hold the judge accountable in a way written comments don't.3. I would NOT like to have to give my competition my talking points prior to the debate. I do about one debate a week because I research my topic and make slides. And i try to come up with what I think my opponent will say. Why would I help my opponent by giving him what I want to say?
@genuine_504 1. Iv only watched a few of the judges videos. Some of them sounded bias. I'm not naming names, however, one of the debates iv seen the judge she seemed to be making a excellent points for one person, however, gave the debate to the other. Again, I'm not a professional debater nor am I a professional judge. These are strictly my opinion.2. Again, this is simply my opinion, I can read much faster than I can listen. Also, I feel like a more solid judgement can be made with a written assessment versus a spoken one. Thoughts are slowed down while writing. I do see your point about watching these debates while driving however. These are much more fun than the same music played on th radio. 3. This was an idea that I came up with. This allowes you to see the other side of the coin and really look into the topic you are debating.I do highly appreciate your thoughts on my suggestions. Thank you!
I'm curious how I got one here haha. I only remember getting an invite to the group from somebody for some reason at some time last Fall and thought it sounded interesting as I enjoy debates. I love it though. To whomever invited me, Thank You. It's been a blast.