Which side makes a better case?
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  • 2 years ago

    lol!!!!!!!!@behind_the_veil_of_ignorance he can't just bring up man nipples then lose his train of thought.

    • 2 years ago

      @yaz , if @jabberjaw ever makes it to RD you have to include the "man nipples" comment in his RD Video.

    • 2 years ago

      Why do we circumcise
      - Easy to wash beneath the foreskin
      - Decreased Risk of Urinary Tract infection
      o Risk already low, however with circumcision, risk is reduced
      - Reduces risk of Sexually Transmitted Infection by 50%
      o According to everyday health The CDC supports circumcision for this reason
      - Decreased risk of Penile and prostate cancer
      o Penile cancer is rare
      - From the New York time “The American Academy of pediatrics has shifted its stance on infant male circumcision saying that new research including studies in Africa suggesting that the procedure may protect heterosexual men against HIV indicating that the health benefits outweighed the risks”
      - Reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners according to WebMD
      - Phimosis at birth
      o Unusually tight foreskin that cannot be drawn back from the head
      o Painful erections later in life.
      - Easier to do it as a child than an adult
      - If Done at birth, cost is between 150 to 400 dollars
      o The cost of getting HIV is much more than the cost of the procedure


      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/10/upshot/why-science-cant-help-you-much-in-deciding-on-circumcision.html
      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/862071
      http://www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/news/20110106/male-circumcision-cuts-womens-cervical-cancer-risk#1

      I have learned a lot about circumcision while researching the topic. I used to think it was a simply aesthetics.

      I do wish I stuck with the vaccine argument though. The point being that the risk of getting diseases that we have vaccines for is low now that if we used Joel's argument, it wouldn't make sense to vaccine our children because the pain they would endure. However, we vaccine our children to prevent these issues.

      Joel, It was a pleasure! Great luck to you and your new baby boy! Tell your wife I said thank you for the time!

      • 2 years ago

        Take the skin and peel it back.Doesn't it make you feel better?

        • 2 years ago

          Circumcision is for aesthetic reasons. No medical association in the WORLD recommends routine infant circumcision, not even the AAP. WebMD does not constitute as research. Here's some real research: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2013/03/12/peds.2012-2896.full.pdf

          It's a report by 38 international physicians who condemn the AAP for their laissez-faire position on circumcision based on the AAP's own cultural bias. Also, watch "Elephant in the Hospital".
          http://www.library.georgetown.edu/gelardin/showcase/entries/circumcision-elephant-hospital

          You can't trust boys to wash under their foreskin? Do you think parents inspect their daughters to check that they washed their vulva? No. At some point all adolescents learn to properly wash themselves. Also, girls get UTIs at more than 5x the rate of intact (uncircumcised) boys, yet nobody suggests cutting off the labia because it's "too difficult to clean." Not to mention the frequency of yeast infections that girls get!

          I'm a nurse in a hospital where circumcisions are routinely performed. It's terribly painful and barbaric. I'd like to see a grown man volunteer to have parts of his penis cut off with only an injection of lidocaine, at most!

          You are so painfully ignorant. Do some meaningful research. More specifically, from unbiased sources outside of the US.

          • 2 years ago

            @staceerosier Hi Stacee, thanks for the post. Thank for providing your input. As a general rule here, we settle disagreements via debate. You are obviously very well versed on the subject. Would you be willing to go 45 minutes with @jabberjaw ? I would love to see it and I think you would do great.

          • 2 years ago

            @behind_the_veil_of_ignorance I'm not interested in participating in a debate. I just wanted to get some info out there for anyone who might believe that rubbish.

            I'd also like to point out that circumcision has consequences that aren't immediately apparent. To name a few:
            -painful erections caused by too much skin removed (some men even get tears on their penis from erections because the skin is stretched so taut)
            -erectile dysfunction http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/
            -painful sex for their partner (the glans/foreskin is a mucus membrane and is meant to help lubricate during intercourse. Lubrication isn't supposed to be the sole responsibility of the woman.)
            -meatal stenosis (constricting of the urethra where urine exits)
            -psychological damage and permanent brain changes http://www.circumcision.org/brain.htm
            https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

            Of course, the greatest risk is death. An estimated 119-229 deaths occur in the US each year from circumcision, depending on the source you use. That number is most likely a low-ball, considering the cause of death from an infection that was obtained due to circumcision would not be listed as circumcision but rather the infection that killed the infant. http://www.cirp.org/library/death/

          • 2 years ago

            @staceerosier as the AAP stated, the benefits out weigh the risks.

            Every year 3,000 to 4500 cases of sever reactions, not mild, to vaccines are reported to the CDC. With your logic and thinking, Vaccines should not be performed.

            http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/feb/03/bob-sears/what-cdc-statistics-say-about-vaccine-illnesses-in/

            Every major medical group that I can find agrees with this. I also said that it should be left to the parents just like these medical groups stated. The actual complications from these procedures are about .2% to .6 percent

            Heck there are more complications from ear piercings than circumsicions.

            http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/06/15/etzioni.circumcision/index.html

            I don't look down on anyone who elects to not have the procedure done. I simply think that it is a great preventive measure of many other more costly and deadly diseases.

          • 2 years ago

            @jabberjaw The difference is that vaccines are recommended by every medical organization because they are proven to prevent and eradicate diseases. According to your source, 122 deaths occur in the US each year from vaccines. 122 out of ALL who are vaccinated. Now, baby boys account for approximately 50% of babies born each year, and approximately half of all boys in the US are circumcised (25% of ALL babies.) In that 25%, 119-229 die from circumcision. This means, conservatively, babies die at a rate 4 times higher from circumcision than vaccinations.

            People seem to forget the AAP also says the "health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision." This means that the benefit isn't even great enough for the AAP to say, "Yeah, it's beneficial. You should do it." No medical association in the world, including the AAP, recommend RIC.

            Andrew Freedman, a member of the AAP board whom wrote the AAP's position statement on circumcision, says: "In the West, although parents may use the conflicting medical literature to buttress their own
            beliefs and desires, for the most part parents choose what they want for a wide variety of nonmedical reasons... Few parents when really questioned are doing
            it solely to lower the risk of urinary tract infections or ulcerative sexually transmitted infection." Basically, he admits the AAP doesn't condemn circumcision because it's a cultural preference, not because it's medically indicated. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2016/04/04/peds.2016-0594.full.pdf

            You're still lacking reliable sources. Citing an opinion article from CNN is hardly legitimate. And you can't throw numbers out there without a source and expect someone to take your word for it. 1.3% of all male neonatal deaths are due to circumcision. http://www.cirp.org/library/death/

            It is a poor excuse to perform a medically unnecessary procedure, all while risking death and disfigurement, to reduce the chances of an infection, condition or disease that is unlikely to happen in the first place when many of which have other, more conservative, less invasive remedies.

        • 2 years ago