2 years ago
Which side makes a better case?
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  • 2 years ago
  • 2 years ago

    @metant3 Congrats for advancing to the next round!
    @sifatulalam Hard luck on this one, really liked your arguments! We just opened registrations for November's tournament:

    • 2 years ago

      We can try and reschedule it to later this week?

    • 2 years ago

      Nice round to my opponent!

      Solid debate round. It was a bummer that out internet connections were so spotty.

      Look forward to debating against you again mate!
      I know we had bad internet issues so try and judge this debate as best you can on the arguments. I'll talk to Yazan about what we should do if it isnt judgeable....

      Thanks for the debate man.

      • 2 years ago

        @metant3 Yeah i agree. It feels good to know you have muslim friends while others consider muslim as terrorists....
        I look forward to have you also. I now know you are really tough competitor. :) all the best dude

      • 2 years ago

        @sifatulalam Thanks man.

        And just for the record I dont think Muslims are terrorists at all :)
        I think there are definitely extremists that exist and its a bummer that a lot of Americans take the extremists and form an opinion of all of them based on the actions of a few.

        You are a good opponent and a very respectful one. I'm glad your on this site debating. Hopefully we can do debates again!

      • 2 years ago

        @metant3 When over 60% of Muslims believe that Muslim suicide bombers are 'acting legitimately' to advance Jihad against the infidel...you are correct that the majority of Muslims are NOT terrorists....but they sure do support them by an overwhelming number. Perhaps this is why there is no large vocal outcry by Muslims when a suicide bombing occurs....because those that are actually opposed are in the minority - and they might find themselves 'oppressed' by those who support the terrorists.

        Before the Civil War...only a small (perhaps 10% ) of southerners OWNED slaves...but the majority SUPPORTED the institution. So...is it bad to OWN slaves but perfectly okay to not own slaves but support people who DO want to own slaves?

      • 2 years ago

        @mvineyard Those questionnaires often ask if there is ANY situation in which you think terrorism is justified. I'd point out that the founding fathers committed acts of terrorism, as did the founders of Israel, as did Catholics in the IRA and who sympathized with them. There are situations where people think terrorism is justified.

        I'm not saying there isn't sympathy beyond those who commit these acts. That is always going to be true, but the statistic you cite is one that is essentially cherry picking without taking into account the fact that most human beings think there are some situations where terrorism is justified by the cause it is done under.

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried You focus on ONE of MANY points I made. Great. The survey can be 'questioned' further. So what. Plenty of other points.

        There are plenty of different surveys on what 'moderate' Muslims support, and it doesn't suggest that the vast majority would speak out and condemn terrorist supporting organizations (ISIS, Hamas, etc.)

        Look at just one article - here:

        AND - it is silly to compare suicide bombers with Founding Fathers. What acts of 'terrorism' did any of our founding fathers commit? [I will give you that Israel, in the early days of their struggle, did commit some acts of 'terrorism' - but typically, they targeted MILITARY targets and not random targets to get civilians. That is a BIG difference to me! IRA...maybe their hands are almost as dirty as peace -loving Islamic suicide bombers.

        BUT - please advise what terrorist acts were committed by Founding Fathers.

      • 2 years ago

        AND - probably over 100 different polls ....most would not support any contention that Islam is a religion of peace. [For example: Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially"). If 38.6% of Muslims believe that hijacking planes and flying them into civilian targets is legitimate - does that speak well of the religion? ]


    • 2 years ago

      If Islam is a religion of peace - a few questions:

      1. How many majority Islam nations permit other religions to operate without restrictions, openly, fairly? (i.e. - the 'center' of Islam - Saudi Arabia prohibits ANY religion to build houses of worship.)
      2. How many majority Islam nations have some form of Sharia law that institutionalizes treating women as second class citizens and non-Islamic people worse?
      3. How many majority Islam nations speak out vociferously against 'those who hijack Islam' to commit terrorist attacks in the name of the Prophet?
      4. How many faithful followers of Islam believe that girls under 16 years old can be forcefully married off, even to fairly old (over 50 ) men...because the prophet Mohammed married a girl of 6 and consummated the marriage when she was only 9 years old?
      5. How many faithful followers of Islam believe in taqiya (permitting lying to non-believers)?
      6. Why do the majority of Muslims not oppose vocally the many hateful fatwas (edicts by Muslim spiritual leaders) that give the appearance the Muslim governments are to follow the religious leaders rather than civilized laws that would treat believers and non-believers the same?
      7. Most Muslims would NOT be terrorists, would not be a suicide bombers, but surveys show that over 60% of the Muslim 'faithful' support the 'mission of suicide bombers' as a legitimate way to wage 'jihad'. How is this in any way 'peaceful'?

      • 2 years ago

        @mvineyard thank you for the logics, i will try my best to explain them.
        first of all, i want to know from you, if islam is not a religion of peace, is there any other religion which seems to be more peaceful to you??

        1.One thing that i told in my debate, you cant judge the muslim religion just based on Saudi Arab. You have to keep in mind what is the scenario of this in other majority of muslim countries. And only Saudi Arab does this to conserve the land of our Holy City Mecca and Medina.
        2.I am not sure what you meant by this point. Can you show me a country where Muslim are treating women and non-islamic people??? Even now Saudi Arab has given permission Women to drive and work. (Now please dont tell about ISIS. that is nothing but a terrorist organization which doesnot have any relation with true the Islamic Rules.)
        3.If any nation isn't saying something, that doesnot mean they support the terrorism , there are other reasons. ANd according to a report of the Wall Street Journal in April, A coalition of 41 Muslim-majority nations is working to create a mobile military force to combat the Islamic State (ISIS) group in Iraq and Syria and militant threats across northern and western Africa. The alliance, known informally as the Muslim NATO, is preparing later this year to hold its first major meeting with defense ministers from across the Muslim world to define its structure and mission. Doesn't that mean muslim nation are doing something to stop terrorism?
        4.I don't think if any faithful follower believes that.And every country has rules that no one can marry off their daughter forcefully. And also its illegal by law. And prophet was married to a girl of 13 years. and it will be wrong if you just look at one side. the girl hadn't any objection to marry. and at that time there were so many social rules, women didn't have any right. people used to sell their mother, wives ,daughters as slaves.You can't just connect the situation of that time and now.The perspective are totally different.
        5.Muslims are permitted to tell lie in 3 situation: to reconcile two or more quarreling parties, to placate one's wife, and in war. And taqiyaa was used in war to increase the confident of the troops. And you can't measure the thing- "How many faithful followers" because all muslim believe what is told in HADITH and QURAN.
        6.Majority of people don't oppose because fatwa is nothing but an opinion.You cant just raise a protest again just a opinion. It will make chaos. You can also say that people dont care what these religious leaders say And you can find only a very few countries in which the government pay heed to the fatwas of religious leaders. And in those few countries government follows the religious leaders rather than civilized laws that would treat believers and non-believer the same. It does not matter where the rules comes from, the thing which matters is what the constitution of the country says about treating non muslim. I dont thing thats any problem. Because in those countries, non-muslims follow the LAW of the country,doesnot matter where it came from. And if any non-muslim had any problem with the laws of the country which are from Shariya'h , they would protest. but have you heard anyone protesting ??? If not , then who are you and I to talk about it. The non muslims are fine with the law. And IT IS PEACEFUL.
        7.As i told in point 2, there is no thing called jihad in the present world. At present muslims now participate in TABLIGH which means to let other people know about Islma, which is way much peaceful. and I dont know which survey you are talking about.Can you give me the reference?? and suicide bombers are terrorists and no nation support them .

        As per TheGuardian newspaper, every year about 4000 people convert into Islam.Will you be able to show me any evidence of people converting into other religion in such huge number? As per Jerusalem Post,In last decade, there are about 100,000 people who converted into Islam.

        I was just defending the point, I wanted to give some burdens to you but I didn't have much time, sorry.
        Sorry for any typing mistake.

      • 2 years ago

        @sifatulalam Islam still has a lot of baggage. There are fringes that are absolutely horrid...and I have yet to hear of much dissent by 'the majority' who try to shut down the radicals.

        Sure Saudi Arabia has modernized a microscopic amount...a woman over 30 can soon drive...big whoop! AND - when will SA eliminate their "Ministry of Virtue and Vice....maybe prosecute the Mutaween (police) who kept girls in a burning building (seems the girls had the temerity to want to leave - without wearing the proscribed attire required....and the Mutaween figured that the girls were better off dead than not properly clothed. Sharia is hardly friendly towards non-Muslims....and it is kind of stupid to protest Sharia in a country that embraces Sharia...it is a fast way to end up in jail (without any of the protections like we have in the US)...or maybe end up dead.

        Most Middle East countries are fairly hostile towards non Muslims....and don't treat non-Muslims fairly. AND - look at the deprivation of the refugees from Syria...and I see little 'hospitality' and support for those Muslim refugees...as if it is up to Europe or America to take care of the refugees, and not Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries.

        Sure...SA 'conserves' its country for "muslims" - and bans all other churches. Maybe the US should preserve OUR country from Muslims and ban all mosques until all Middle East countries permit Christian churches and Jewish synagogues to be established. Seems to be fair for both...

        I don't mind a strenuous defense on your part...I respect it. I might not respect some of your answers...because plenty of the reporting from the Middle East does not put Muslims in anyway 'peaceful'. Syria...lots of killing there. The schism between Shi'ia and Sunni - with all the hate and killing there. Honor killings of daughters or sisters. Women not permitted to go out unless accompanied by a male. Islam AND 'tribalism' has kept Afghanistan as a 15th century hell-hole. Shi'ia Islam in Iran has taken a modern progressive country back to rule by ayatollahs who issue fatwas, get crowds to shout 'death to America'...and they keep the people oppressed while working hard to develop ICBMs and nuclear weapons so that they can bring forth confusion and destruction ....hoping to bring forth the 12th (Hidden) Imam. People in Iran protesting their tyranny are arrested...and mis-treated...and killed. Iran is an Islamic Theocracy....sure...religion of peace! NOT!

        I stated what appears in basic readings about Aisha - wife of the Prophet - and you changed what I wrote...BUT - here is what I was basing it on...

        "It is believed on the authority of some Hadith reports that the marriage ceremony (known as nikah, amounting to betrothal) of Aisha with the Holy Prophet Muhammad took place when she was six years of age, and that she joined the Holy Prophet as his wife three years later at the age of nine. We quote below from two such reports in Bukhari.

        “It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

        “Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old."

        AND - I see pictures posted of mass wedding ceremonies planned - with very young girls...maybe 11 or 12...in wedding dresses...accompanied by men 30 or 40 years old. Looks to me like it still happens, and the 'peace loving Muslims who do exist, don't exist in numbers strong enough to put a stop to all the horrors that HAVE taken place under the guise of 'jihad' and promulgating the 'religion of peace.'