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  • 2 years ago
    • 2 years ago

      The judges have spoken!

      @joshuatreeretreat Congrats for advancing to the next round!

      @debateme13 Tough second round but great job as always! Back again in Nov? :-)

    • 2 years ago

      The path to hell is paved with good intentions @debateme13

      • 2 years ago

        27 years from 1990-2017 (yes, we're all getting old) :)

      • 2 years ago

        @joshuatreeretreat Way to point out that white lies are different in implication for a close relationship. Totally what I was thinking.

        • 2 years ago

          @debateme13 I think the "does my butt look fat" question is just as dangerous as lying about an orgasm. But it's different because it's a prompted question. If I have to ask my partner whether they orgasmed, the answer is probably no. The fake orgasm is specifically intended to avoid such an awkward question.

      • 2 years ago

        @joshuatreeretreat nails it on the head when she points out that awareness that your partner might lie could create additional further complications, including distrust. And it's empirically proven? Holy cow.

        • 2 years ago

          @debateme13 Great final speech. Seriously.

          • 2 years ago

            Now I actually want to have a resolution about telling your kids that Santa is real

          • 2 years ago

            This is the book that I pulled info from if anyone is interested in reading it! https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062209726/girls-and-sex

            • 2 years ago

              @joshuatreeretreat ftr, although it was difficult at first to find out where the disagreement really was, it wound up being quite an interesting debate and I felt it was quite even. Hopefully we can debate again in the future on a more policy related topic lol

              And also this debate is so weird because I can't really share it on my wall or with any of my overly Christian friends lol. If I get both judges then cool, otherwise have fun moving on :D. Edit, although I'm still getting votes so I guess we'll see :)

            • 2 years ago

              @debateme13 I also thought this was a good debate and I'm cool with it being shared! Christians have orgasms too, I hope?

          • 2 years ago
          • 2 years ago

            Well, I definitely picked the right debate to watch tonight. You guys both did a really great job.

            @debateme13 does an excellent job of presenting an argument that there is a difference between white lies and dark lies and suggesting the primary purpose of a white lie is to avoid embarrassment, etc. I really like watching you debate, man; your arguments are cogent and relevant as a general rule.
            @joshuatreeretreat is similarly well-spoken and persuasive. This makes it a really tough round to judge, but in a GOOD way. You're both doing an excellent job presenting a coherent case, responding to your opponent's arguments, and moving the debate forward to new topics or new levels of analysis at the end.

            Not to put too fine a point on it, I vote "con" on the stacking argument for white lies. I know the pro tries to rebut this at the end by pointing out that individual white lies aren't problematic, and that it takes a number of them to matter. I think this is adequately answered by the con's point about the fact that faking can cause trust issues (not to mention confidence issues) in a partner; it only takes one to open the gateway on this sort of thing. Unfortunately, that last statement is not really made by the con, so I have to do a little work to get there. But I think this work is justified by the con argument about the difference in social obligations between the cashier and a sexual partner. This operates independent of the simple stacking of lie upon lie, and gives added weight to even one lie in a close relationship.
            I think pro gives a really great last speech, but it just wasn't enough to pull things out for me. Both of you guys agreed on some key arguments for your last speeches, which I appreciated.
            Also, con gives a great analysis as to why she has proven under the pro's own criteria/definition that orgasms don't count as white lies. If they are intended to avoid shame or embarrassment in the short-term but have the opposite effect in the long-term, well, then they definitely didn't accomplish that purpose very well.

          • 2 years ago

            the fact that a man (@debateme13 ) is in his own sort of way explaining to a woman ( @joshuatreeretreat ) why women have fake orgasms makes this a phenomenal debate.

            • 2 years ago

              @the_peoples_champ tell me about it, I was sooooooooo not expecting to debate a girl on this rez. I absolutely would not have picked it if I thought I'd go up against a girl lolol Edit: Woman

            • 2 years ago

              @the_peoples_champ yes, that definitely occurred to me, too. The debate where @purplebash takes the pro is also quite good (and I voted for her- much of how I structured my arguments was actually based on her debate) so not all women agree about this. The other debate was different in that it focused a lot on personal experience and relationships, and I kind of wanted to stay away from that given that personal experience can vary so widely.

          • 2 years ago
            • 2 years ago

              To clarify because I was cut off towards the end, my vote goes in favor of the con side. Although her argument was less formulaically presented, I believe she made her case by proving that faking orgasms are dark lies becuse consistently lying can promote distrust between partners, as well as false expectations by men, which leads to systematic cultural harm- this is definitely a long-term consequence, which is not entailed within the definition of a white lie.

            • 2 years ago

              @arielle_3558 Thanks for the judgment. I should have thought of some examples of white lies that if you do them once aren't dark lies, but if you repeat them enough they become a dark lie. I didn't really do that, so I certainly see where you're coming from here.

          • 2 years ago

            @debateme13 @joshuatreeretreat
            With community votes going to PRO and the first judge voting for CON we have a tie so we'll bring a second judge to make the final decision!

            • 2 years ago

              Nice job @joshuatreeretreat. I'll have to debate you again on a topic I actually know things about lol

              Good luck moving forward!