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  • 2 years ago

    @sigfried @lewisoflime

    OMG, best debate ever!!!! Thank you for the show guys :-)

    The winner for this debate will be determined based on the best out of 3 votes i.e. community + 2 judges. Your confirmed judges so far: @navapanichz

    • 2 years ago
      • 2 years ago

        @navapanichz Thanks for the judgement Navapanichz. :) As clear as I may have been, I fear I was not clear enough. I don't mean to dispute but I do want to explain my reasoning and see if I can find a clearer explination.

        -As to Obstruction
        Because this is a question of fact, I am asking "If X happens, can we expect Y to happen.
        I don't have the burden to show that X will happen. That is a Plan based burden. I only have to show that IF X happened Y would result.
        We are evaluating the potential results, not the feasibility.

        -As to the linkage
        I agree that I could have hit that more.
        The idea is that by seeing normal bodies, we change our expectations of ourselves. Instead of trying to meet the impossibly high standards of models and pornstars, we are instead meeting the standards of the fellow, average participants in nudist events.
        The ideas of what a naked body should look like are currently formed by the pinnacles of beauty and that creates a distorted body image. If instead we formed our views based on a broad selection of bodies, we'd have a much more realistic body image.

      • 2 years ago

        @navapanichz On reflection, I have a question for you about the round.

        How would you describe the burden for this round for each side?

      • 2 years ago

        @navapanichz Thanks for the analysis! I agree with you on statistics - I genuinely struggled to find *any* statistics critical of self-esteem and nudity - hence I tended to rely on other positions. I appreciate you giving your time!

      • 2 years ago

        @lewisoflime Yep, that's pretty much why I took this topic. :)

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried hey, I'm so sorry it's taken forever for me to reply, it's been dead week/finals so I've been swamped. As for some clarification on the debate, I'd like to preface everything by saying this was a really tough call since obviously you're both really skilled debaters and ultimately it didn't come down to huge issues or holes in your arguments, just smaller details, or one side arguing slightly better.

        So for Obstruction, I think that yeah, you're right, it's not a policy debate so I don't /need/ solvency to be proven. My point here was moreso that, when you don't spend time defending feasibility, it developed into a little bit of a slippery slope with the neg calling into question probability and then even real possibility. In this decision I basically noted that yes, aff has fiat, but it's not invincible and we need to think practically to get the most educational value out of a round.

        As for the link, like I said you presented a really strong front here, but I think the neg made a good point about the systemic issue being the fact that we compare ourselves, rather than what we're comparing ourselves to. It's easy to make the argument that we'll end up on this sort of hedonic treadmill, despite being surrounded by a more realistic body standard.

        In terms of the burden, at the most basic possible level I would say that aff needed to prove to me why SQUO fails and nudity succeeds, and neg needed to prove a general net change of zero or none, which I think was pretty fairly accomplished.

        feel free to let me know if you still have questions
        -Zoë

      • 2 years ago

        @navapanichz Thanks for answering my questions, it's always helpful to help formulate future strategy and pick areas of my arguments to work on!

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried No problem! Again, honestly you didn't have a lot of fatal flaws, I think you're a really skilled debater :) very interesting round to say the least

    • 2 years ago

      @lewisoflime Congrats for advancing to the next round (despite being dressed lol). Please expect further details on your next debate in the next couple of days

      @sigfried Another "first" debate to go down in the history of QO.. amazing performance as always, thank you! :-)

      • 2 years ago

        I'm voting Con on body image.

      • 2 years ago

        LOL on the nudity. Way to raise viewership, gentlemen!

        • 2 years ago

          @benmouse42 @scottishmaniac

          Guys, not eveyrone should be allowed to debate on QO. Look at this nudity!

        • 2 years ago

          No, con, no one is uncomfortable. Yes, I speak on behalf of everyone, and yes, I know that's inappropriate.

          • 2 years ago

            @lewisoflime BOOOOOO nofun at 6min :P

            • 2 years ago

              @sigfried @lewisoflime I have the weirdest urge to to watch Magic Mike right now!!! Awesome debate!

              • 2 years ago

                @lewisoflime One for the annals Sir! Thanks so much for a great debate! And fantastic humor, not to mention sharp argumentation. :) Hope everyone enjoyed the "show."