Which side makes a better case?
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  • 2 years ago

    For a comparison debate, its ludicrous to leave the comparison to the last 30 seconds where the opponent has no chance to respond. The only analysis given is that 'benefits can occur in absence of a contract'. Joe's case implies otherwise, and, to be honest - its incredibly unfair to deny him an opporuntity to rebut espically since he was asking for a comparison from the beginning.

    Also like christ, be fair guys - forcing con to defend child rape and forced marriages is fine, but you have to recognise the more extreme in worst-cases you force on con, the more extreme in best-case benefits that Pro is reasonably allowed to argue for.

    • 2 years ago

      Voting Con - Mind you I argued con in another round so take it with a grain of salt.

      General..
      Both debaters had a strident aggressive tone. It never crossed the line, nor really became monotone. A little give and take could help on both sides though.

      Style notes
      -Pro: Try to limit the screen antics during the opponent's speech. Some reaction is fine I think but you went over the top there.

      -Con: The feminism rant was not good tactics. Your choice to promote your views, but bringing in any outside controversial topic endangers your audience sympathy and bias.

      Arguments and RFD
      Pro gives us a lot of known harms for marriage around the world. It's a good line of argument to show a problem. The world focus is fine, in fact, it actually plays to western biases in many ways.

      Trying to make con specifically defend these things is something of an overreach. It's your job to make a case it is outdated.

      Con gives us some advantages of marriage. I thought these could have been more clearly spelled out but it's a good counter to the harms from Con

      Con's justification for Eurocentrism was pretty bad, so I stuck with looking at this wholistically.

      Pointing out Pro offers no alternative is pretty key for setting the burden here.

      Change over time argument was good. It would have been better to actually show examples of this in action today.

      Ultimately, while Pro makes a pretty good case, his lack of addressing the benefits con offers, and and not meeting the challenge of alternatives leans me into the con possition here.

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried thank you for the feedback. I will concede the idea of gaining audience sympathy and things of that nature but at the same time it's against my principles to not address that specifically because of being a scientist specifically a social scientist.

      • 2 years ago

        Also I did it because I want to show that bolstering your case with the appeal to Authority gives just as many questions as it does answer them and it should not be taken as a legitimate Source in this debate.

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried

      • 2 years ago

        @alot_like_locke Indeed. I think that following your principles matters more than tactics. But... I like strategy in all things so I thought it was worth a mention. :)

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried it most definitely was worth the mention and it is good that you pointed it out to me because I'm a human therefore I'm not infallible and I will make mistakes but this is something that I consciously did. However, it's something that I will try to address as the tournament proceeds and other debates come into fruition.

    • 2 years ago

      @alot_like_locke Sorry for the tone of aggression; it was uncalled for.
      I appreciate the feedback from everyone, but I can't really respond reasonably. I literally threw up after the debate because I was so angry.
      As this site has not been emotionally or physically healthy for me, @qallout @qallout_tournament I would like to formally concede this debate and request that my account be deleted. I would rather concede on principle than watch the votes roll in and beat myself up for failing to adequately defend the values I hold dear. (Not the marriage thing, honestly--people can do whatever they please as long as they are consenting adults.)
      I appreciate the idea behind this site but I apparently am not suited for it; I'm a pretty terrible debater, it turns out.
      I will try to make the world a better place in some other way. Best of luck to you all in finding the truth (whatever it may be), and good luck in the tournament(s).

      • 2 years ago

        @kahnwiley I really hope you do not follow through with this. You are a very good debater and do very well in all the debates I have seen you in. I can understand the frustration with yourself and I too struggle with this issue a lot but being passionate about your topic/values is not something to be ashamed of, rather just find a healthy way to funnel that into your debates. Hope you decide to stick around man.

      • 2 years ago

        @chandlebrowning Maybe later in life. Honestly, I've been going through a lot of personal stuff and I didn't intend to register for this tournament for that reason. . . but they auto-registered me so I thought, "what the hell?"
        I respect and appreciate all that you folks do, I just can't handle this sort of thing right now. I have to fight against plenty of BS in my everyday life and carrying that into my free time does not keep me balanced or allow me to do the best I can do to help myself and others.
        This is not a desperation move, I pretty much detached myself from this site a month ago, but this is definitely the last thing I need right now.
        Once again, I want to apologize to @alot_like_locke for my disrespectful attitude. I try not to be that person anymore and I don't want to negatively impact anyone else's life.

      • 2 years ago

        @kahnwiley Man. This is truly awful to hear mate. I for one love the aggression and fire spitting in debates. Granted I am naturally very high in disagreeableness but I in no way, shape, or form was offended by our debate. I learned a great deal from this debate and treasure that. If this is your choice I will not try and demean you any for it, but thank you so much for the debate and I had a blast. Stay up my friend.

      • 2 years ago

        @kahnwiley that's really unfortunate man.. I enjoyed your debates here, from the first one you had on drug testing at school..
        I hope everything moves swiftly with whatever you're going through and please let us know if there's anything we can do from our side.
        Your request to concede the tournament is noted.. hope to have you back real soon.

      • 2 years ago

        @kahnwiley You are definitely not a terrible debater. I thought you were well spoken and articulate. In a competition like this, losing isn't a shame. All but one of the debaters will lose during the tournament.

        But... if losing is stressful and makes you feel badly, then I agree, a competition might not be suited to you. If it isn't fun, don't do it.

        But I enjoyed your debate and thought you acquitted yourself well. There's room for improvement, but I'd say you have the chops to represent your view well.