2 years ago
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  • 2 years ago

    This is my first debate on this site and I wanted to highlight 2 things:

    Not only were Trump's remarks racist and inappropriate by every standard for any human (let alone a sitting American President), but more importantly, his denial of the words used is normalizing blatant dishonesty to an extremely dangerous point.

    Politicians are dishonest, but Trump denies realities & facts to a point that insults people's intelligence straight to their face. Even his own White House won't corroborate his words.

    This is not a funny SNL joke anymore and we should start holding him accountable for his lies.

    • 2 years ago

      @truthbetold Since he was GOP primary leader, and after studying him, I concluded that you can't put any stock or substance into just about anything Trump says. He just says whatever shit pops into his head.

      I'm not sure he is racist in any classical sense, but he's a bigot and an elitist in general from everything I've seen.

      I think you are trying to hold him to a standard he cannot aspire to. He will never choose his words carefully or thoughtfully. He will never show others or even his own office the kind of respect we would expect.

      Shaming Trump and being outraged does nothing. His ardent supporters either hate the democrats more, or they like his antics and attitude.

    • 2 years ago

      @truthbetold

      1) Is it an established fact that he said "shithole countries" or the assertion of one or more persons? How did we determine whether or not this is a fact? One person said he said it, another said he didn't. Why would we give more weight to the accuser?

      2) As Sigfried alluded to but never really got to, you are not Trump's target audience. The average person (that is to say, the average voter) does not have a problem with terms like "shithole countries" and probably uses that same term in everyday normal conversation. PC culture is substantially different from American culture and the two should not be confused. People inside of the DC/coastal echo chamber, and their values and beliefs, do not accurately reflect America at large.

      To the average person, they're not really concerned with how their words will be perceived by hypersensitive individuals with a political ax to grind. It's just not something that crosses normal people's minds when they are talking. That's why Trump can say something (if he did say it) like "shithole countries" and everyone kinda understands what he means by that. Everyone is pretty sure he's not talking about England or Japan. Everyone has a vague sense of the general "gist' of what he means by that, and the only rational explanation for how that could be the case is if there is some kind of truth to it (otherwise it wouldn't make sense and we couldn't interpret anything from it). Somehow, EVEN his critics are somewhat aware of what he meant by that, which begs the question of how you could know that without knowing what a shithole country is in the first place lol.

      What's really going on is people are using this as a political opportunity to attack the president, just as they use literally everything he says as ammunition and further evidence of what they already believe. It's not like you had a different opinion of Trump prior to this, and everyone knows that. This is not "the thing" that changed your view of Trump and you should be honest with yourself about that.

      You have to understand what "average" is. "Average" means you don't know the 3 branches of government. "Average" means you think the Soviet Union is a NATO country. That's what "average" actually means, and most people who follow politics have an extremely poor understanding of what the "average voter" *actually* is. The "average" voter doesn't have a problem with the term "shithole countries" and largely agree with his general assessment of the issue. I support open borders by the way so this isn't me trying to defend Trump's immigration policies which I find to be objectively horrible. This is me simply explaining to you what you're unable to see with your own eyes. Trump is speaking to the average voter, not you.

    • 2 years ago

      @truthbetold I think it would be an extremely tall order for you to demonstrate that you're mentally capable of discussing Trump is a calm and rational manner. I'm skeptical of that claim and would love to test that theory. Let me know if you want to debate.

    • 2 years ago

      @sigfried that makes sense. Fair point.

    • 2 years ago

      @bronsonkaahui "average" means what you expect from a sitting American President, based on past Presidents. That being said, I get what you are saying and I agree with you as well as with Sigfried.

    • 2 years ago
  • 2 years ago

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-579-93WS4 worth checking out

    • 2 years ago

      @change_my_mind great video. I do not refute the validity of a debate surrounding the comment itself and how it's been blown out of proportion for political purposes, this is another debate.
      My debate is specifically about Trump denying the comment altogether.
      If he dropped the ball (and even if the media blew it out of proportion), he should concede, apologize and move on. To deny the use of those words is a blatant lie over the stack of lies he's been racking. He's normalized blatant lying and we're all forced to now somehow accept it. I have a serious problem with him getting away with lack of accountability and not owning up to his own words.

    • 2 years ago

      @truthbetold my issue is that there is little evidence that he did say it... While I do not deny that it is within his character to say something along those lines.. I have not seen enough evidence to suggest that he did say those things... Not saying he did or not just skeptical