2 years ago
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  • 2 years ago

    I'd say most Americans don't critically analyze their values much. I'm not sure that this makes those values poor.

    I tend to see people as mostly good. But that partly comes from self-selecting friends and acquaintances who I think are good people.

    I tend to shunt aside people who are purely selfish.

    • 2 years ago
    • 2 years ago

      @bronsonkaahui Here's my take on the same information...

      1. People know personal relationships but not politics. Their familiarity is with personal traints, and people tend to pick politicians that they most trust, and what they learn about trust, they learn in personal relationships. So they make political decisions on personal grounds. That's not a great idea, but its often the best some folks can do if they don't follow politics.

      2. We agree that war is an evil in and of itself. And that when you engage in war, you need to know that you will be doing evil, killing innocent people and destroying societies.

      Most people tend to view war as a necessity. Something you have to do to fight bad people wherever they turn up. They put all the moral onus on the "bad people." If I look at the Taliban or ISIS I do see "bad people" who make life pretty bad for those they rule over, and who are aggressive towards their neighbors (at lest with ISIS).

      But I do question if we should be involved in such fights and if we actually do any net good with our actions. Many feel that these fights are tantamount to self-defense. I don't agree with that.

      But keep in mind, everyone makes judgments on what they know. While they know innocent people may die, their justification is they are saving more lives by killing terrorists, specifically the lives of Americans whom the terrorists vow to kill.

      2a. A small segment of the left was very critical of Obama for his war and security policy. Not the main-stream, but you can find socialists and greens that were very critical of Obama specifically on his war policy, but also on other fronts.

      3. A lot of media hoo ha is just both sides cheerleading and booing the other side. As you have pointed out, it can be very hypocritical, making excuses when their guys do it and going apeshit when the other guys do it. There is some immorality in that, though not at the level of excusing evil.

      Overall: I think it helps when you try to see the world from the eyes of other people when you judge them. While I agree there is a lot of immorality to point a finger at, it's not just black and white or simple.

      I think it is more productive to argue as to why they should change their views than to simply call them immoral. (unless you think they are irredeemable)

    • 2 years ago
    • 2 years ago

      @bronsonkaahui I don't take issue with much of that up till the end, but here are some observations.

      1. I agree that people have petty issues front of mind. But I feel like if you pressed them with the choice, they would not be consistent about it. So, if after you gave them you first question "what do you hate most about trump" you then followed up and said, "Which do you think is worse, Trump saying "Grabe em by the Pussy" or "Bombing innocent Afghan Children in an airstrike"

      They may squirm a bit, but I think most would say the bombing is worse. (not all, some would say they think the pussy thing is more a direct impact on their life).

      I'd say we don't think about the Afghanistan thing because people have conflicted feelings. they don't want people to die, but they are also afraid of terrorists and feel like those bombings are intended to kill people who are themselves, killers. So it is a lot more complicated.

      Trump disrespecting women and being vulgar is simple and easy.

      Not that I think this excuses them, but it explains why in a way that is not simply that they don't care about innocent people dying.

      2. Immigration is a real policy concern with real impacts on real peoples lives.

      3. I don't think people are taught to like or accept war. At least, I never got such instruction in public school. All my school teachers were pretty well peacenicks, at least those who talked about it. Our SocStud books spent a lot of time on the horrors of war. I think it's the un-official teaching and culture that leads us to not take war as seriously as we should.

      That and the fact Americans are so incredibly insulated from its costs and consequences (though that doesn't stop people in other parts of the world who know it first hand from getting into conflict.

      I've often felt like it's not that people don't get the right lessons, its that they don't listen don't listen to them all that well or take them to heart and when push comes to shove, more primal human instincts take over.

  • 2 years ago

    The "First World Problems" meme exists for a reason...

    • 2 years ago

      In order to have values, one must first have an understanding of the material relevant to the measure of the value in question. Babies have no values because they have no understanding of the world.

      We can only attribute values due to experiential knowledge.

    • 2 years ago

      Most Americans do not have poor values because they as a people do not in general do thing that we would consider of poor value like we have the salvation army and in all we are the most charitable country in the world we give roughly 5% of our gdp. We have also not committed a genocide in the last 100+ years.

      • 2 years ago

        @pepsiman yeah but your government routinely kills innocent people on the other side of the world for morally unjustifiable reasons and you don't really care. Thus, you have poor values.