2 years ago
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  • 2 years ago

    Men's Rights are often unappreciated and need to be treated seriously.

    • 2 years ago

      I think to show that they need to be addressed more we need some evidence that men's needs are not already addressed to a satisfactory or reasonable degree.

      That's not something I've observed. Most anythin I find I need as a man is readily available to me in society.

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried First, by definition women cannot have equal rights with men if men don't have equal rights with women. Things are changing, I think for the better. A couple of examples, more so from the past than today: 1) Why in general did women get alimony almost automatically (not talking about child support, that's a different issue). The double-standard works both ways. When Kaley Cuoco divorced her pro tennis husband and he got alimony from her, most of my female friends were outraged - "Imagine a man leeching off a woman." 2) Should women almost always be awarded child custody. Another double-standard. 3) why should men be the sex that (generally again) is supposed to ask the woman out on a date. Why can't a woman do that? Why are men expected to pay for dates? Why do women expect men to be the "Bread winner" on one hand, but demand equal pay for equal work on the other hand? (Personally I believe in equal pay, but when that happens don't turn around and complain because the man is no longer the "bread winner.") A little thought experiment here. Considering women had almost no rights in the early 20th century compared to today, I believe the call to save "Women and children first" when the Titanic sank more than 100 years ago was the right thing to do. But, applying the concept of equal rights by today's standards, I don't think "Women and children first" would apply if a new version of the Titanic sank today. Would that mean an 80-year-old woman should be given special treatment and a seat on a life boat over a 20, 30, 40, 50, or even a 60 year old man...just because she's a woman. If women are equal...then men are equal...and special treatment shouldn't be given to either sex.

      • 2 years ago

        @dorothy8532

        I'll say up front, rights are about laws, not peoples personal standards, though the latter often influences the former. So when discussing rights, we should be discussing law rather than social opinion. Now if opinion is biasing legal decisions, that's probably still a good ground to look at.

        1) Alimony - Legally, the application of alimony law should be unbiased by gender. In 1970 SCOTUS ruled that it must be so. Men often choose not to seek it, and generally, men earn more, and thus they would naturally be the ones supporting the ex-spouse who earns less. So I think most disparity here is voluntary or circumstantial, not legal bias.

        2) Child custody - Most of the time the decision is made in a way both parties agree with. Court battles are actually the exception far more than the rule. And men do win a share of those. I think there is some bias, but it often reflects that women tend to be the parent who spends the most time with kids due to work patterns. There just aren't many men who want to go to court to get primary custody.

        3) Dating - That is not a legal question so it is not a matter of rights. No one is forcing men to ask anyone out on dates. Same for the rest of that about breadwinners and so forth. Don't like it, don't do it. It's a matter of social expectation, not rights.

        4) Women and children first - Again, not really a legal question. It's just a social custom that the less capable are the first to receive assistance from those more capable. Of course, men aren't really always more capable. Children demonstrably are, so that makes practical sense.

      • 2 years ago

        @sigfried yes...after I wrote my earlier post, I thought I should have used the word stereotype instead of rights. There are plenty of negative stereotypes targeting men that often go unnoticed. When we're talking rights...as you point out...I do wonder what rights women are denied now based on the law or by any standard for that matter. The original post talked about men's rights....that's why I used that word without giving it much thought.

      • 2 years ago

        @dorothy8532 Cool. All stereotypes are tricky. Some of them are just lies. Others are based on personal experience, aka there is some element of truth to them when taken in aggregate.

        So, for instance, men are more violent than women. Statistically, this is 100% true. And there is an easy explanation, Testosterone. The dominant male hormone makes us more aggressive.

        But, that doesn't, by any stretch, mean all men are violent. So any man you meet, isn't even likely to pose any violent danger to anyone.

        I believe in treating everyone as an individual. Assume they are a good and decent person until such time as you lean otherwise. Use their own individual traits to judge them, not stereotypes of groups they may belong to.

        Where a stereotype is harder to ignore is when you are doing something like marketing. If men generally like action and violence, then you are going to reach out to men, broadly, with action and violence. You won't get all men, but then again, no message would, so you go for the easy targets.

        I'm not sure we can ever get rid of that sort of thing because it's based partly on truth.

        But that is also the problem when it comes to opening doors, paying for dates, and similar social interactions. Some women will want to be treated in this way, others won't. So the solution is to worry about yourself instead.

        Pay for dates if you want to, or don't if you don't want to. Ask women out if you want to go out with them, don't ask them if you are not especially interested. You will end up pleasing the women who like your style and weeding out the ones who don't, and that makes for a good match. AKA be yourself and understand that not everyone out there is a good match for you, and that's fine.

    • 2 years ago

      If by Men's rights you mean issues affecting men, then yes. Sadly, more often than not what groups who call themselves Men's Rights Activists are really about is using problems faced by men to attack and silence women. Oh sure, they talk a big game about caring about male victims of sexual assault, but they only ever bring it up to try and shout female rape victims. Whenever a man actually does bravely come forwards, those same "Men's Rights" people mock him and throw homophobic slurs at him. And of coruse, for all their talk about caring about Men's Rights in the broad sense, in their actions they show they really only care about men who are white, straight, and cisgendered. They are at best dismissive of and at worst outright hostile to men of color, transmen, gay/bi men, and anyone who falls into more than one of those categories.

      So you'll understand why, whenver someone calls themsleves a Men's Rights Activist, I'm a little skeptical.

      • 2 years ago

        Can you provide some evidence that back up your point? Men's rights is not something I have noticed in society.

        • 2 years ago

          Honestly I feel that white males are now often described in the western mass media as the enemy and the culprit for every problem in the world.
          The real issue is that in the majority of western countries most people are white, They are the standard, being white doesn't give You a free pass at anything.
          Actually if You think about It statistics only It´s worse to have a penis than a vagina. Bigger rate of suicides, deaths in war, homicides, mental illness risk etc..
          Not even to mention that being part of the majority harshly cripples your opinions, It's validity and how They are received, because again, You are part of the problem.
          So yes I think that there are not enough spaces to debate this issues without angry feminist trying to shut it down because patriarchy and stuff...

          • 2 years ago

            @el_nino Not sure if it should be a competition of who has it worse.. all groups have benefits and disadvantages, fair enough. The whole idea is to offer the basic rights/ opportunities catering to the different characteristics of each group. e.g. women give birth, they don't have an option, if they want a child they need to stay out of work for a few months at least. So we need to for that (paternity leave, dair treatment at work place, freeze eggs as an company benefit etc.) Men tend to go to war and get to killed more. Given that this is voluntary at least in the US, open up the option for the women too. Women, children, older people have traditionally played an important role in wars e.g. stay behind, keep working etc so that the army can keep functioning. Again give equal opportunities and let female in too. Regarding homicides and suicides - do you think that's an issue due to men not having access to the same treatment as women?

          • 2 years ago

            @el_nino "Honestly I feel that white males are now often described in the western mass media as the enemy and the culprit for every problem in the world."

            And it never occurred to you that maybe there's a valid reason for that?

            "Actually if You think about It statistics only It´s worse to have a penis than a vagina. Bigger rate of suicides, deaths in war, homicides, mental illness risk etc.."

            Also less likely to be shot by police, overrepresented in Congress compared to actual population demographics, and more pay than women in general and WOC in particular for the same job...

            "Not even to mention that being part of the majority harshly cripples your opinions,"

            This is a very stupid thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking it.

            "So yes I think that there are not enough spaces to debate this issues without angry feminist trying to shut it down because patriarchy and stuff..."

            Well, it doesn't help that the MRAs are a pack of goddman liars who talk a big game but actually care more about attacking women than helping men.

        • 2 years ago

          I would call this less men's rights, and more Female privilege. But if everyone has privilege does anyone?

          • 2 years ago

            Many focuses are pointed in woman's rights. Men are highly regarded as are woman in our society...Though woman seem to have less opportunities then men, men seem to be forgotten sometimes. Each should be regarded as an individual however, each person is different.

            • 2 years ago

              Utter rubbish if a men`s right movement starts then all men have no right to bitch about the cancer that is Feminism

              • a year ago

                Men, Women, Whites, Black all have equal rights and people just want to complain about inequallity because they have nothing better to do

                • a year ago

                  Though I am not a feminist I believe white males have always had privilege. Also lol only guys agreed