Great topic. My answer to this is that human life may have purpose/meaning, but unless we were to become infinite, we humans have no access to the knowledge of what that purpose/meaning actually is.We do have the capability to choose a meaning for ourselves, but just because we want something to be our meaning/purpose doesn't mean it inherently is. It would be an agenda that we pursue and that gives emotional and psychological peace to our lives, but that doesn't mean it actually was the meaning of our human life. But if we were infinite beings who could look at humanity in the context of what we actually are, we would see if we are random creatures, or if we are purposed creatures, and what that purpose is. In the meantime, we have the freedom to do as we wish while living in a world where we are incapable of knowing the thing we so desire to know.
@sharkb8 Well, I don't know where to start. I disagree with a lot of what you said. First, if you bring up the point that we are not infinite beings so we dont know the "truth", we really cant debate about any subjective topic because none of us know the "truth". All we can do is try to make the best educated guess on subjects like these while trying to find the objective truth.Second, I'm not sure even theoretically is it possible for anything be a infinite thing knowing the "truth"I agree with this one."In the meantime, we have the freedom to do as we wish while living in a world where we are incapable of knowing the thing we so desire to know." I still strongly think that we humans have no purpose and also there is no purpose for anything (living or non-living). In fact purpose is something we created like morality, government etc. In the context of universe, purpose doesn't make any senseEverything just exists.
@sharkb8 We can have a debate on this if you disagree. Or a discussion if you want to explore
@mani_bharathy Absolutely! I've been studying and thinking about this particular question a lot over the last several months so I'd love to debate/discuss it. How does tomorrow night at 6:30 Pacific Standard Time work with you?
@sharkb8 That'll work for me.
i have purpose and meaning, so at least some human life does.
@sigfried Do you think you have some purpose in the context of universe ? May I ask how do you know for sure ? Only way you can know for sure is that if the infinite being (as @sharkb8 says) tells that to you. Or you are the infinite being :sunglasses:?Can you tell me how you found your life's purpose? And also can you tell me how can I find mine?And also if you believe the universe is deterministic, then also purpose/meaning doesn't make any sense to me.I also think the word purpose itself doesn't make any sense in the context of universe (whether it be deterministic or not)
@mani_bharathy "Do you think you have some purpose in the context of universe ?"Sure, I am part of the universe so my life is in the context of the universe."May I ask how do you know for sure ?"Direct experience. I live out elements of many different purposes each day and feel the meaningfulness of my actions in my life and in the lives of others, whom I care about."Or you are the infinite being 😎?"Nope"Can you tell me how you found your life's purpose? And also can you tell me how can I find mine?"I would say I experience my life's purpose in the act of living and observing its consequence on the world around me. As to how you can find yours, be humble, be open, and accept what you observe."I also think the word purpose itself doesn't make any sense in the context of universe (whether it be deterministic or not)"I'm not sure if "context" is the right word here. I suspect you mean something more like "scale" or "scope". Does the fate of all the universe hinge on my life? No, why should it or would it? I just don't think that is a realistic expectation.
@sigfried Interesting answers! I have a lot of questions to ask you now. Probably we can do it as a debate. Let me ask some simple questions to understand your POV.1) Every human has a purpose ?2) Animals have purpose ?3) Is purpose of a someone subjective or objective ? Can you prove something as your purpose like you prove 1+1=2 ?4) Non-living things have purpose?5) Can someone change their purpose?6) Is the human purpose is choosable or determined ?7) Is it okay if someone did not complete their purpose before they die ?
@mani_bharathy 1) Every human has a purpose ?-I think that is likely the case2) Animals have purpose ?-For the most part, yes3) Is purpose of a someone subjective or objective ? Can you prove something as your purpose like you prove 1+1=2 ?-I would say most purposes are subjective. About the only purpose I can objectively prove is that living things have the purpose of perpetuation of life.4) Non-living things have purpose?Yes, mostly we would know their subjective purpose. An objective purpose for non-living things is possible, but probably not something we could demonstrate.5) Can someone change their purpose?Sure, I think we do that pretty often.6) Is the human purpose is choosable or determined ?Mostly chosen, though not always. (mind you this depends a bit on how you see choice being defined, I'm using a colloquial rather than philosophical definition here).7) Is it okay if someone did not complete their purpose before they die ?I would judge it is OK. I think it would be unrealistic to hold 100% success as a baseline for judgement.
@sigfried Thanks for the reply. Do you think the universe is deterministic ?
@mani_bharathy "Do you think the universe is deterministic ?"I suspect that it is. That is where the preponderance of evidence seems to lie, but I am not entirely certain.That said, we don't and never will experience it that way. We will always have uncertainty about the future and be making iffy predictions about it and trying to chart a course for ourselves through the range of possibilities we foresee and imagine.
@sigfried So do you think there is only one way of possibilites for things to happen ?@kyrothehero and me are not able agree on the definition of deteminism. Your answer to this question could help us agree on the definition
@mani_bharathy "So do you think there is only one way of possibilities for things to happen ?"Yes, though I have no way of knowing what will happen so I must deal with the future as a set of possibilities rather than a certainty.
@kyrothehero Sig says about determinism above. What do you think about it? Do you think the same ? I guess we contradicted on that part
@mani_bharathy I disagree with @sigfried about there being only one possibility.
@sigfried Shall we do video debate on this?
Sounds about right