Whether men commit most of the crimes is irrelevant to whether there is sex discrimination occurring in society. It is likely, due to biological factors, that even in a completely egalitarian society, men would commit the vast majority of crimes; men are more aggressive on average. The more important statistics are the ones about crime VICTIMS, not perpetrators, because men will always be the primary perpetrators of violent crime.
@kyrothehero Thats what I also felt when he said that men are doing more crimes.
@kyrothehero women are disproportionate victims compared to crimes committed. They are also the primary victims of sexual and domestic crimes.
@sharkb8 if you are in a shipwreck. would you want women be saved before you and other men
@sharkb8 so you think what the ppl in titanic did was wrong and against feminism?
@mani_bharathy https://goo.gl/images/4Y1LDEJust because @sharkb8 disagrees with what the people on the Titanic did doesn’t mean that he thinks they were “wrong and against feminism”.
@kyrothehero Actually I liked how cathy newman interviewed jordan peterson. I dint find anything drastically wrong with her approch. I dont understand why there were a lot of criticism around that
@kyrothehero See there are two ways to proceed.1) save women first2) Not necessarily save women firstAll I'm asking is feminism anywhere involving in this decision process or not?
@mani_bharathy Cathy Newman's interview was thirty minutes of straw man arguments that started with "so you're saying". If you watch the interview more carefully, I think you'll agree that Newman was disingenuous at best.
@mani_bharathy For their time, the men on the Titanic did what was noble.That doesn't mean there's any objective reason to think that men have to protect women from water. Both sexes are equally capable. It's almost insulting to assume that in a shipwreck, only a dude would be able to escape and that therefore, men have to help women. Uh, no.But I most certainly would want all adults to save the children first, since the kids aren't strong enough or mentally ready to handle such a traumatic situation.
@kyrothehero The problem with feminism is they dont have a proper definition. they dont know what they want. They just dodge with the word "Equality" which again not defined properly in the first placeIn order to prove them their statements are making fallacies I'm trying out these situations like titanic and how would a feminist and non.feminist would react in the situation and how equality is achieved by different decisions.
@mani_bharathy That's fine, I just don't think putting words in people's mouths with phrases like "so you think" is a productive way of achieving your goal.
@kyrothehero I still dont understand y is it not a productive way for achieving my goal. I need to know what he would do in different circumstances to understand what he means when he says equality
@sharkb8 why is that noble? why didn't the women refuse their offer if they wanted equality ? Or may be those women are not feminists?
@sharkb8 we could some lounge if possible. i haven't covered most of my arguments in the debate
@mani_bharathy I can't cuz I'm at work and then I won't be free tonight, but I can write comments.Anyway feminists do know what they want. They want women to not live in fear of sexual and physical assault, to have the same job prospects as men, and to have the same freedoms as men. As long as any of these things are not being met, feminism will be needed. As we discussed, in many countries, women are legally barred from things, or culturally barred from things. It is much easier to be born as a man. Even in countries like the US, women have to deal with sexual violence that men don't have to deal with, and although societal standards are slowly but surely changing to allow women to have equal job prospects, that is a process that takes time. And the people on the titanic were not feminists. They lived in a different world with different standards. Women were less educated, and had less ability to work or exercise. They were weaker citizens because their culture expected that from them. They did need special treatment because they were raised in an environment that expected them to be no stronger than a child.In modern society, it is understood that women have just as much capability to take care of themselves as a man does. If I saw a man who needed help, I would help him, and if I saw a woman who needed help, I would help her, but first and foremost I would help the kids. It's possible that a smaller woman might need more help throwing a lifeboat in the water than the man next to her might need, so I'd help her before I help him, but generally speaking, men and women are fully capable, intelligent beings and neither gender needs special treatment.
@mani_bharathy Like I said, it's fine that you try to understand his position. However, again, putting words in his mouth by saying things like "so you think" doesn't increase understanding.
@kyrothehero I dont understand why do you see the phrase "so you think" to be putting words in his mouth. @sharkb8 did you feel i was puuting words in your mouth when you read "so you think" ?
@mani_bharathy It was an inaccurate summary of my position, which makes it look like a straw man, so I see why Kyro said something. But if it was an accurate summary, there wouldn't be anything wrong with it imo. Like if you said "so you think that in the past, the people on the titanic were doing the right thing, but today you think it would be bad" I think that would be a reasonable thing to say.
@sharkb8 To me, the issue was that @mani_bharathy was extrapolating from your original statement. If he had said "so you think men and women should be viewed equally in a shipwreck", then that would be fine. He extrapolated from that to a statement that essentially said "so you think that your present standards should be retroactively applied to the Titanic", which you never said.
@kyrothehero yeah exactly. Much like the Jordan Peterson interview, the "so you think" wasn't really a summary, it was a strawman.