well it seemed my connection crapped out, not letting me back in. lots of bugs on qallout now
@daniel_jongeward tha ls for the challenge, @daniel_jongeward
Fun times. Missed several minutes due to connection issues but still fun. Universal unchanging Truths such as Reason, Logic and Moral Laws are evidence of a Creator. -C.S.Lewis on Moral Law Giver
@nellyj_misesian I used to like C.s. lewis and lion the witch and wardrobe, now I think he is an idiot. But obvious not the Christian god, cause they got verse one wrong and though stars and the sun are different and lights in the sky. If the christian God exists he should have future knowledge morals and ideas not ones carried by people in the bronze age. therefore it makes the most sense to me that christianity is entirely artificial, too much evidence that it just mimics other ideas at the time. But most people aren't like me, it can be very hard to challenge your beliefs, I don't think you were willing to do that at all, maybe so, would happily do so again. Thought you invoked the strawman fallacy a lot, and scotsman fallacy that catholics aren't "true christians." I would be interested in how others think how it went and would happily debate you in the future. :) take care
@daniel_jongeward here you exhibit my point that you can't live consistent with your worldview. you admitted that atheists have no morals and that morality is both subjective and a "social construct" so how can you condemn accident societies for anything, especially so-called slavery, which shows common ignorance of what actual slavery was back then having no relation to what slavery is thought of today, when it was not common practice and Socially accepted even expected? You can't. In fact you can't condemn anything, including slavery from 150 years ago. Could you condemn slavery in the middle East? No. Yet you do.Hence, Inconsistency
@nellyj_misesian To be a consistent atheist is to consistently not believe any gods exist. I am pretty consistent with that until a point I believe in a god, which is highly unlikely. I admitted that being an atheist is not a decoration on morals not that we don't have them, in fact I consider mine and many others to be morally superior. I can condemn ancient societies for immoral behavior and slavery because it happened and I can recognize it as wrong, and immoral. can you? confederates even argued it was their god given right to have slaves cause it said so in the bible. Worshiping other gods and multiple gods was also common back then, your god had no trouble saying that was wrong why not slavery? the act of owning another human as property. You actually sound like you are making excuses and are okay with slavery, in which case, yes I am morally superior than you in that I recognize that its wrong. I can condemn slavery everywhere, even today. I am actually very consistent, your just assuming my position. hence strawmanning once again.
You still have not told me why you think atheist worldview is unlivable, and what you mean by unlivable. you said inconsistent, but so what? lots of people are inconsistent. I feel like you are trying to make the no one is really atheist agruement, in which case you are trying to assume what someone is thinking which you will never really know, like I can throw that back at you and say no-one really believes in God, they all must know its a lie but fake it anyway cause of social and tribalistic issues, But I won't. It best to assume we are the best representation of our own thoughts. Like I will never know what you are really thinking, or what you really believe I have to take your word for it, its sensible to do so. When I assume what you are thinking I am making my own strawman to knock down.
@nellyj_misesian Also you argued that Atheists countries get their morals from christianity, but I would argue its the other way around, religion gets its morals from the local culture and society not the other way around.
Sorry another point I wanted to make but got cut off in the video when you said about "people protesting for their rights." its because our moral structure starts with total freedoms like you can do whatever you like, then scales back those freedoms so to preserve everyone's freedom, like I shouldn't punch you, cause I would also like to live in a society were I am not punched. there is a science and structure to morality, we can study it. We can have an opinion on it, some would say hypothesis. But at its core I believe is the desire for humanity to thrive and co-operate. (But still has nothing to do with the position of being an atheist, as I said that position only has to do with whether or not any god exists) you mentioned you think god's hand was used to make a thunderstorm, which to me is as silly as saying thor makes thunderstorms, maybe more so since thor is cannonly a god of thunder. To me you sound just as silly, I reject your claim just as you reject thor.
I think next time we need to like have a switch out function, I felt talked over a lot. not a fan of this format, but I don't think nelson alternative worldview is any more consistent. even so people live inconsistently all the time. The technical problems were very annoying.
@daniel_jongeward that’s a common complaint about Nelson in just about every debate he does. There is an option to do a timed debate where both sides get 3 minutes and then can pass the mic to the other. That way each side gets equal time and doesn’t get interrupted.I haven’t watched the debate yet but I’ll check it out tonight.
@sharkb8 I think I caught my opponent in 3 fallacies, the argument from the state of ignorance, scotsman, and strawman, but I also didn't check what my opponent said while I got kicked from the room and couldn't get back in. but if debating an empty screen isn't a form of strawman I don't know what is. lol