2 months ago
Which side makes a better case?
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  • 2 months ago

    There is zero evidence that god exists. your title is unprovable. Why not debate actual subjects.

    • 2 months ago

      I can prove your belief in god is from indoctrination.

      • 2 months ago

        The universe has always been here and always will be here.

        • 2 months ago

          your audio is fine he's trying to intimidate you lol

          • 2 months ago

            THE UNIVERSE HAS ALWAYS EXISTED LETS MOVE ON

            • 2 months ago

              omg this is silly now

              • 2 months ago

                millions of people believing in something does not make it true.

                • 2 months ago

                  scientists are only guessing about the universe, no actual proof exists because we simply do not have access to the entire universe.

                  • 2 months ago

                    your idea of god just disproved your argument. if god had to make us, something had to make god. you are silly.

                    • 2 months ago

                      omg really? wow

                      • 2 months ago

                        yeah you can break it down to science. wow

                        • 2 months ago

                          i cant explain something therefore GOD! lol whatever

                          • 2 months ago

                            THE UNIVERSE IS INFINITE WOW. This guy just lies to make points lol

                            • 2 months ago

                              BECAUSE IT DOESNT RELATE

                              • 2 months ago

                                NO DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM

                                • 2 months ago

                                  such a weak argument

                                  • 2 months ago

                                    what if the wind blew the stick

                                    • 2 months ago

                                      wow

                                      • 2 months ago

                                        this guy is trying to use science to prove god, it's simply disgusting bro

                                        • 2 months ago

                                          pft unreal

                                          • 2 months ago

                                            18 min. Kind of a train wreck. Pro made a claim and wants to talk endlessly about what Con believes. Which is irrelevant. Just support the contention that "god exists" then let Con respond.

                                            • 2 months ago

                                              20:45. Ugh. Yea, that is a god of the gaps argument.

                                              • 2 months ago

                                                @johnsbadger if you ever want to debate the Satanism thing let me know.

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @julian I think satanists are just an anti theist troll religion

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward pretty much. Or actually more of an anti-Christian hate group, or far right extremists/neo-fascist by their own admission. LaVey’s wife Diane is on record in their divorce proceedings admitting it was a plagerized as a Con for a quick buck, but people still seem to take it that serious anyway.

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @julian haven't met a few I wouldn't classify them as a hate group, definitely not fascists. Maybe a bit anarchist, but those traits are not mutually exclusive. Seems you fashioned a bit of a strawman. I don't know of anyone taking it more series than star wars or star trek. I suppose its a community, but their main goal seems to be keeping christians from abusing their power in government. here seems to be some info: https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/tenets

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward as Atheist, I understand why you would seem to appreciate perceived shared values, but it is you who are misinformed. Peter Gilmore, the current leader of the organization had been on record for years in support of fascism, in fact in his new book the organization is selling, the Satanic Scriptures, he adds a whole chapter about it as doctrine.

                                                  The reason why I call them a hate group soefically is because it is anti-Christian/religion group. I cited their tie in with fascism, which is no strawman. Please always do research and explain before ever saying such a thing to me. Your opinion about who you know is surely not relaxant. I will surely hold up accountable defend it h2h.

                                                  People are serious enough to erect a public statute but knowone takes it seriously? They have an estimated to have 10,000 registratered members, although no records are not published. You’re defending a cult.

                                                  https://cvltnation.com/lucifer-liberator-racism-fascism-left-hand-path/

                                                  https://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_members_are_in_the_church_of_Satan

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward or actually linking the organization to fascism is as easy as pointing out that Diane... I mean Anton LaVey plagerized “Might is Right” word for word, whose narrative is divide, destroy and conquer to the point the book is considered a parody by some scholars. According to DuckDuckGo search engine, free PDFs are available on sites like the neofascist “Stormfront”.

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @julian perhaps scotsman is the correct fallacy you are using because basically you are saying all satanists *Blank* Im not defending one cult over the other Santaist, even if a troll religion, have just as much right to erect a statue as anyone else, one could even call it art. More original and thought provoking than most. All religions are cults. the only difference is membership and numbers and perhaps power. So you are defending a cult too, just the easy popular one.

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward not whatsoever. Your statement is just a bunch of text chamber nonsense and ass-homs and I really don't time for that.

                                                  For your claim to be true, "Scotsman fallacy", I think you're alleging that by pointing to a single person or group is characterized by trait , it doesn't mean they are, but that's not what I said (although this would actually be a "some are, some are not" fallacy. "Scottsman" fallacy is actually saying a particular person isn't truly characterized as a member of the group without material relavance ((close but not quite the same)). So If I must keep repeating myself,yes, the current leader is facist, but I also point out, "The Satanic Bible", plagiarized from "Might is Right", which is known for an extreme right divide and conquer philosophy, to the point of parody. Peter Gilmore, the current "High Priest", also has of course now added a new book, "The Satanic Scriptures", in which he includes a chapter aadvocating facism. Look, its not all copied from Ayn Rand. There is a difference. Whereby, Objectivists, believe it immoral to force others to do their bidding beyond suggestion, the "Might is Right" doctrine does not. Because dogmatic texts are connected with facist ideologies my premiss is relavant, and material, because it is based upon facts.

                                                  Infact, if you scroll up you will see where you talk about how you know someone or something, so it's not like that. Whereby, you imply your friend(s), doesn't believe in such, so we must conclude "some are, some are not" . But you didn't cite facts in support of a logical conclusion. It’s just your opinion. It’s falciouis.

                                                  Why do you think I give a fuck about the statue one way or another? This isn't a debate about free speech. Of course they want the right to say the stuff. How is it different than the KKK standing outside of the Statehouse?

                                                  https://www.fallacyfiles.org/somernot.html

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward And what cult am I alleged to promote? Have you looked at my page or watched my debates?

                                                • 2 months ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward the Satanic temple states that: "One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.' But this a contradiction, as "Might is Right" AKA, "The Book of Satan" states: "Human rights and wrongs are not determined by Justice, but by Might. Disguise it as you may, the naked sword is still king-maker and king-breaker, as of yore. All other theories are lies and — lures." It's probable that because Diane attributed the plagiarism to a short deadline of a few months, she probably didn't realize the texts she copied did not agree at the time.

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @julian seems people contradict their ideology all the time, like the christian god commanding people not to kill then demanding the death of the first born child. lol

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward it doesn’t matter. Your using a “two wrongs make a right” fallacy now. It seems like you now agree.

                                                  However, it could also be assumed,and is likely that because Satanism was developed in San Francisco, during the “hippy” or “peace movement”, it had to appeal to such an audience, in spite of defiance of most of the movements values.

                                                  This would be an interesting h2h live debate. I would call “Avon books brand Satanism endorses hate and fascism”. Up for it?

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @julian honestly I don't know enough about satanism, seems like a troll religion made because christians have too much power, I don't think they actually believe in the thing they preach. any can such a religion that its main focus to rebel have any fascism? fascism requires an us vs them. so I think your premise kinda poisons the well. you can make any brand of any religion I think christianity has several hundreds, do westboro baptists get to speak for all christians? NO. so you can bring up any documents and perhaps that evidence could be correct to that author, but you run the risk of using the scotsman fallacy to say all satanism is this, or that its even a good representation.

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward like I already told you:
                                                  a) my assertions are completely based upon fact. “The Satanic Bible”, specifically the chapter titled, “The Book of Satan”, and more recent, “The Satanic Scriptures”, endorse fascist ideologies. Scroll up for details please. Lol.
                                                  b) There’s nothing fallacious about my above statements whatsoever because they are based upon material fact. It doesn’t have to account for every follower. I.e. The Christian Bible preaches the divinity of kings, but it’s safe to assume many Christians believe in democracy. Although, it’s still fair to criticize Christianity itself as imperial. And as I already said, you are using a “some are, some art not fallacy”, because your argument is based on a presumption that in your experience Satanist are not fascist, so we must draw a conclusion otherwise in spite of the facts.

                                                  If your interested I think it would be fun. Just let me know.

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @julian if you consider the facts, one guy's opinion? actually in my experience christians are way more fascist than satanist. I'd be happy to debate this.

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward How many times to do I have to tell you that it's indoctrinated in their books? Just look at my previous comments. It's not one persons opinion at all (unless you're referring the cult's leader, AKA Anton LaVey, or his Wife who actually wrote the stuff). I'm not a Christian. I have several debates on here as an Atheist. I have no idea why you believe I would debate such a resolution. I'm honestly curious if you even read what I write back to you.

                                                  I'll be more than honest and tell you that I know so much about this because I was briefly involved with it in my teens. It's something that I really regret. And although, I would like to forget, I think I'm the person who could change someones mind about it.

                                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0qw_EQMVvY

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @julian I studied them briefly when I was in san francisco. But you seem to have a wide jump to close without any evidence. I don't see pro fascist statements anywhere, which may tell me you don't know what fascism is or what satanism is. you make lazy arguments like its in the books. well where? use references. So many debaters expect you to do their work for them. well I did the work, cause you were lazy and I was annoyed. and Guess what no evidence of fascism. in fact by definition they may be closer to the opposite. or anti-fascist.

                                                • a month ago

                                                  @daniel_jongeward just read the above comments.

                                                  But again, "The Satanic Bible", plagiarizes word for word in excerpts, "Might is Right", renaming it, "The Book of Satan". Here is a quote: "Human rights and wrongs are not determined by Justice, but by Might. Disguise it as you may, the naked sword is still king-maker and king-breaker, as of yore. All other theories are lies and — lures."

                                                  I gave additional citations also. Just scroll up. I’m not sure why you insist otherwise. You give no evidence.

                                                  If you believe Satainism is anti-facist (please remember, to speak within reason we must speak to the ideology itself, not who follows it), can you give a material reason (not someone you know)? Can we just do a fun a h2h?

                                                • a month ago

                                                  http://churchofsatan.org/might.pdf
                                                  “The Philosophy of Power and Logic of Today.
                                                  Might was Right when Caesar bled
                                                  Upon the stones of Rome,
                                                  Might was Right when Genghis led
                                                  His hordes over Danube's foam,
                                                  And Might was Right when German troops Poured down through Paris way,
                                                  It's the Gosepl of the Ancient World And the Logic of Today.”

                                                • a month ago